personally what I crave is and and I’ve seen this in so many other men is compassion and non-judgment and if I was to expand a little bit on that compassion on judgment understanding and empathy yeah it it it just goes so far in the healing Journey full stop but particularly men for men especially the non-judgment [Music] piece welcome to the embodied relationship Experience Podcast my name is John Wineland I am here with my good brother Stefanos Sifandos um we’ve known each other now for what I mean eight years nine years something like that no little less than that about six or seven yeah yeah and Steph is officially the first guest that I’m having on this podcast and so I wanted to bring him in to discuss this concept of what men crave emotionally which is a charged and often complicated concept but you know we’re too men who you know I would call us high value men right on purpose we’re um in the world we’re uh we know we’ve been doing and are continuing to do our own deep work you know we’re we’re both good Fathers and all these things right so I thought it would be really helpful to open this discussion not only for women but for other men who are just kind of fuzzy around this question about what do I crave emotionally what do I um need so I can feel like I trust her with my heart what do I need uh what do I crave right and so I really want to come at it from this lens of of not necessarily what you think men need but more about what you actually crave right because I think that that’s part of the work is giving men permission to just tap into like wow what do I crave most most men don’t even know that sexually most men don’t know that emotionally um but they they know it when they see it they feel it and something happens something opens I see this all the time so this concept we’re going to dive in before we do uh uh if you’re watching on YouTube please smash that like button spread it around it’s really great to help us get the content out please uh I know this is going to spark some thoughts so please leave your thoughts in the comments and if you’re listening on Apple or Spotify please rate and review it helps helps me get get this out right so Steph you’re you’re pretty well known in the world and what you do you you teach women you teach men you teach um relationships and so just for those who don’t know you give us a little you know one or two minute um blurb on who Stefanos is anecdotally I’ll ask 10 people and maybe four maybe four will know who Tony Robbins is so when you sound well KN I’m like in in our space in our space Yeah in our little [ __ ] you know weird that’s exactly right I’ll take the compliment I appreciate it um I’ve been in the personal transformation space for the last 24 years not quite as long as Tony Robbins but you know in there in there for a bit uh I guess my focus really has been on relationships but not just relationships with other people relationships to ourselves to the things that are most important to us for me it’s not a question of of whether we’re in relationship I think we’re completely relational with anything and everything in our world it it’s also the quality of that relationship so to our past to our traumas to our dreams to our Visions to our eroticism to our maturity our emotions as we delve deeper into that the things that make us us and I’m just very fascinated by that and then you know the periphery of of human psychology and Human Performance and sexuality and everything that just feeds into that right so that’s really what my focus is and just helping certain people optimize and helping other people supporting them in their healing Journey as well helping them move through some really tough stuff yeah we’ve certainly been you know there for me in my healing Journey you know along the way yeah yeah so yeah highly recommend Steph’s work and we’ll get into where to find him in a bit so you know within the context of what I’ve been talking about on this podcast uh those of you who’ve been with me for a little bit know that I’ve broken down these this uh this idea of sacred intimacy into three pillars last episode I did a piece on uh the three types of intimacy the energetic intimacy emot emotional intimacy and then spiritual intimacy notice I didn’t say sexual but you know it’s all kind of wrapped up and then in this episode I really want to get into this idea of the the part of the second pillar which is probably for me the the deepest one and the richest one and that is Devotion to love right and what it means to be devotional to love in the relationship sphere over our own agendas over our own patterns and wounds over our own childhood programming and that is that’s where the [ __ ] rubber meets the road that’s very hard in the moments of conflict and one of these one of these Concepts that I really wanted to dive in was emotional safety and normally we talk about that at least in the polarity world we talk about that from the perspective of women right rarely in fact I don’t think I’ve actually seen anything that talks about it you know from the perspective of men like what makes a man feel emotionally safe what inspires him to want to claim a woman for ever right what um what allows him to be his best self what relaxes his nervous system and um and so I thought it would just be a nice conversation for us to talk about just personally What We crave or you know what you’ve heard from men I know you work with a lot of men I work with a lot of men um you know there are some themes that are developing here so let me just get a couple disclaimers out of the way um we’re obviously not speaking for all men we’re speaking for ourselves and for men that we work with friends we’re both in at least two men’s groups you know and I’ve been in many and so we’re not speaking for all men of course and and I want to say because I know this will come up uh in the comments that we’re talking within the con confines of of a mature safe relationship right we’re not talking about something that you know men crave and need but that they’re not willing to reciprocate they’re not willing to give back so you know before before I get the comments of like well men need to do this too right of course they do of course they do but I I really wanted to open the space because I think a lot of women don’t know what men crave emotionally right and they don’t they I I haven’t actually seen them I mean again that’s not all women but just there’s a in the space that I run in there’s there’s a I’d say a lack of curiosity and even repulsion towards sort of men’s emotional needs and it’s you know it’s understandable I think women have been in the desert so long you know um their needs not being met and their you know there’s no Attunement to their nervous system I I just understand why it would be like well [ __ ] that now you know now men are just now coming online you know don’t talk to us about you your emotional needs and nervous system needs uh I’m not saying everybody does that but there is there is that in the space and and um so what I’m really hoping to do is to just create a um a holistic view of man right we both have a masculine and a feminine right my masculine is going to Crave certain things from my feminine partner my emotional masculine is going to Crave those things my emotional feminine is going to Crave certain things from my feminine and partner and vice versa so I think it’s important to to give some uh some space for that so I’ll just I wanted to Tee It Up what I’m really looking to get into here and I think that the first question that I came up with is is around emotional maturity and what are the characteristics or traits of the emotionally mature feminine that you crave I think thank you for that I love the way that you’ve said that up in terms of just laying some foundations of what is maybe happening in the world in the in the realm of relationship I think it’s important to also look at where we’ve come from and collectively and maybe at a macro level it hasn’t really been appropriate for so many different reasons for men to emote or to be in touch with their emotions in a healthy way and so I totally get that women have been in the desert for so long and men have too and and I I guess at some point we have to put our Shields down collectively and we’ll probably get into that but personally what I crave is and and I’ve seen this in so many other men and this is this is what helps us put those put that armor down is compassion and nonjudgment and if I was to expand a little bit on that compassion nonjudgment understanding and empathy yeah it it it just goes so far in the healing Journey stop but particularly men for men especially the nonjudgment piece because look we all have a capacity to be really hard on ourselves and Men carry again I say all men disclaimer again we’re generalizing right so many of the men that I’ve worked with and myself I even speak for myself it relates to you it relates to you but I have carried this burden if you like or this belief that I have to be a certain way yeah yeah and anything less than that you know how hard I am on myself man you know probably better than most actually because you really see it you can really penetrate that I’m I can be can be so hard on myself that it puts up all these walls and because I’m not getting it right and these are Old Wounds right yeah of course and when I met from a from a deeply feminine bodied woman particularly that that that the way I interpret that sense of of loving nurturance with non-judgment and compassion and it’s consistent that’s a real key there as well I crave that and look at the same time there it’s part of me that’s going to push that away because it doesn’t feel familiar and it doesn’t feel safe and can I really trust it yeah but eventually if I can move into my own Center and accept that’s part of that really receive that and learn to receive that and allow myself to receive that that compassion non judgment begins to just grind away that armor and that then opens up my heart to to not only give from a more authentic place but to to to Really receive what that love is yeah yeah that’s beautiful and I I’m curious do you feel like you’re more if let’s say in an episode you’re having you’re met with that level of compassion and empathy um do you find yourself more available to give after that yes I mean that that’s my experience as well right and it’s funny I I think that as I’ve spoken to women about this episode you know there’s this thing about well you know as long they’re not in it all the time like there’s this fear that comes up of like oh if he’s if I’m going to be asked to hold his emotions then this is going to be an all time all the time thing every time thing and I think uh and so I understand that but what I would love women to hear is that in in many men uh and many of the men that I work with when we feel emotionally safe it then kind of just allows our masculine to come back online and then you know be there for you if we’re feeling emotionally unmet or we’re feeling like we can’t trust you with our wild or Tender Hearts then it’s going to be really hard to like rise above that and be you know be reciprocal and present and um and so yeah I I really want women to know that on the other side of your compassion and empathy is his deeper capacity for presence and holding you yeah yeah yeah and the caveat that you shared before around this being an an emotionally mature relationship it it allows space for that that we’re not speaking about a man that is at the very beginning stages of his journey into self and into relating and into intimacy we’re speaking about a man that has a level of awareness I don’t know if you can quantify per se but it’s deeper than just awareness he’s in practice with himself so you know and to also expand on something you asked earlier not only can I give more after receiving that over the years I’m allowed more of that in Faster yeah yeah so I can give quicker but it’s not just to give it’s also just to let that settle in my nervous system that that I am worthy of that as well yeah yeah yeah and that I’m safe to be messy yeah that I’m safe to be messy you know I I I was thinking about that question about what I would Crave in an emotionally M from an emotionally mature feminine right some of some of the words that came to me were curiosity right like to really be curious about what what is going on with you what is important to you what do you need right and um that is something that felt really important um the other thing that felt really important was this um lack of a better term awareness right to be self-aware uh to have uh the self-awareness of your own anger for example like I think a lot of this problem that’s a lot of the big issue is this unowned anger which I understand in women right at this anger not being met and then over the last 50 years or so men have gotten in touch with their emotions and they’ve probably gone too far into the emotional realm have yeah I think I think that there’s a lot of sort of training that has taken men too deep into their feminine expression it’s just inauthentic medine it feels fik yeah or it’s indulgent yeah yeah and I and I think and as somebody who who is indulgent right I I can relate to that right but I’m aware of my emotional Indulgence right I’m aware and so I think one of the things that’s hard to ask for for me of a woman is self-awareness like are you aware of how much of this is what’s happening between us right now and how much of this is projection of your past how much of this is you know family of origin stuff and I don’t mind if it comes it’s just if you’re aware of it like just it relaxes my nervous system to to for you to say I’m so [ __ ] angry right now and this is the exact same thing that my dad used to do and I’m ah and I’m feeling you know and I’m and when you do that I get this trigger right there’s the amount of awareness that somebody brings that a woman can bring to her own emotional experience helps to relax me to know that I’m not going to just be dodging daggers and I’m not going to just be dodging a wound dump um and then I can be with it with it it’s safe because it’s known self-awareness is is overtly saying I am aware of myself I know these things that live within me and I’m here expressing them but I know them yeah so you’re not guessing is this me is it just me is it something else is she willing to take responsibility and ownership of what she’s experiencing and what she’s projecting and then if she comes out and says yep I’m projecting yep I’m really angry right now I’m I’m so good with that I’m totally down for that right because I hear it all the time I hear women say like oh no I tried that I tried that I tried that the other piece I think this leads into the second thing I think is crucial for me I think most men and most men don’t even realize this until I put them in front of a woman and I have them gauge it but it’s open-heartedness like the ability to be openhearted like literally have your heart relaxed and open as much as possible while experiencing big emotions that’s a that’s a skill that I I totally Crave in a woman like I I you can be as angry as you want at me you can be in as much anguish but if if I feel your heart open I’m so much more it becomes um magnetic it becomes um uh attractive become it’s sexy actually power in a certain way yeah like you know yeah powerful embodiment it’s very powerful powerful yeah and and so part of this idea of what a mature feminine looks like to me is aware um compassionate uh understanding we all have wounds right and and you know the ability to really um be an experience with an open heart yeah yeah and and to me all of that really promotes safety it really speaks to I feel safe enough to be me yeah and and I know at some level of course with agreements in the relationship that we can go to really difficult places and if you can maintain openness and can maintain openness we can Traverse those together yeah and I think you know I was thinking about I’m still being with the question of what I really crave and what I also really crave and this may be a little sticky for some is I’m going to use these words worship and devotion right and and and so don’t shoot the messengers ladies like we’re just telling you what We crave and what we know other men crave right like it’s your you can give it or not absolutely information and in the world that we live in it maybe this isn’t the right term but I’ll just use it and we can play around with it I’m happy to change it but it also at some level needs to be earned and I want to add something to the devotion the worship for the intrinsic value that is me yeah not not that I have to do something to earn not as provider not as protector just intrinsic values me so when I say earn it what I’m really meaning is I can’t be a piece of [ __ ] and expect worship and devotion and in fact I don’t think I’d even be receptive to it if I know I’m being purposely if purposely in my wounds and in my projection and pain and shaming her and then I’m expecting devotion and worship which which does actually I can’t personally do that but if I’m doing that no that’s not going to work yeah yeah definitely not of course yeah I mean and and I love this idea of being worthy and earning it but but what I think I think what is often troubling is how much is earning it right like is is have we all have wounds obviously men have wounds and we want to be free to to receive your feedback about those wounds and then make steps towards cleaning it up and um and is that earning it right or do I have to be in this sort of state of masculine Perfection all the time in order to earn your love and um or or earn or earn safety I think so much of of what I crave you know I mean there’s a couple other things that I crave in emotionally mature woman let’s let’s let’s just stay with that question the other’s the capacity to repair oh massive [ __ ] right right I mean if yeah it’s everything because find me a couple that doesn’t fight and genuinely repair though right genu not not mask it up yeah yeah not not these kind of like solid oh I’m sorry you had that experience yeah yeah I’m sorry you had that experience no uh you’re right I did this I understand why it’s hurt you I’ve done it before I’m aware of it here are the things I’m going to do here’s the way I think it impacted you like and of course men need the same awareness piece though right that’s a self- awareness it’s a self- awareness piece I mean so much of what we’re talking about just to zoom out you know in the frame that I use is what our feminines Our Hearts Let’s just call it our hearts Crave in their masculines and it for for women to deny that that’s a valuable thing to cultivate for the sake of relationship would be like us saying like oh like your drive repulses me or your mission repulses me or your capacity to penetrate you know and organize and do you know being their masculine repulses me like that would be and I understand that some men have that experience right but but good men would be devotional to her masculine right just like supportive of it and good women should be supportive to our feminine if I was to ask a woman and say hey do you want your man to be able to express joy and passion and excitement and um you know and love at a very very deep level like do you want a [ __ ] roomie you know do you want some roomie in your man they’d all be hell yes but the moment I started saying well what about fear and what about you know anguish and what about you know what about anxiety what about the other parts of Being Human on spectrum that exist on a spectrum it’s amazing to watch what happens in the the the I think the way I’m reading it and I could be wrong and it’s not like this for all women but the way I’m reading it is that fear of oh no am I going to have to be his mother yeah I’m sure that’s very applicable in many instances and also you know can I and do I even want to hold that and again like I I just look at our Collective around that there is we we live in a society of convenience and short-term gratification we Embrace what is pleasurable and easy and accessible and nice and pleasant and all that and desirable and we push away what’s undesirable and you know fear Lo anguish it all lives in that space undesirable but it’s part of who we are so if we deny that aspect of ourselves are we not are we actually not denying the fullness of the convenient aspects of ourselves and the desirable parts of ourselves yeah the way I would like to frame that is is in a healthy relationship we are um embracing the fullness of our partners humanity and Spectrum far feminine to far masculine right so we are we have cultivated the capacity to hold their feminine we’ve cultivated the capacity to be devotional to their masculine we’ve cultivated the capacity to uh create safety for all of the ugly bits you know I i’ I’ve heard Jordan Peterson talk about this a few times and although I don’t agree with everything he says this one I think hits the [ __ ] Mark which is if you’re really going to commit to somebody for a lifetime or for a long time you’re going to have to go into the pits of hell with them right and if you go into the pits of Hell blaming them shaming them you know like repulsed by them like that is just going to be so damaging so damaging and I see a lot of men afraid to bring their wounds a lot of men don’t know how to be fair a lot of men don’t know how and that’s why we have jobs um but I think I think this idea of you know is it safe for me to show my little boy a especially if it has something to do with her behavior I think a lot of women and I’ve had this experience a lot like my grief around Claire they love it my grief you know you know just my my personal grief and about my childhood love it the moment that there’s anything that has to do with their behavior all of a sudden you know you know now you’re I’ve even had someone say oh you’re being too feminine I’m like you know I don’t think that’s true I think I’m just being emotional interesting yeah yeah so so so you know I think this is going to be um an evolution in relational dynamics of how do women and I see it in women cultivate the capacity to be with your wound and wild heart and I think that brings me to this concept of capacity like like so I what I crave emotionally is to know that she could be wide she could be wide and not be mother so I’m C like let’s I want to pull on that a little bit like how do you feel it when she’s nurturing you but not mothering you well a big part of that comes from within me and so you know very openly I I have a mother wound there’s and I’ll I I got that cleared out years ago man wish well I gave it a crack in my early mid 20s gave it another crack in my early deeper and deeper every decade goes deeper deer and and as the layers of self evolve more comes to the surface and I’m I’m in it right now you know I’m really I’m really in it right now yeah and I will say it’s the most beautiful relationship that I have with this now that I’ve ever had in the past and I I guess that’s because of the maturity I’ve had over the years over 20 years I guess since I I really started looking at it um but but a lot of that you know the the more I make the unknown and the unconscious known and conscious Within Myself the less I project in subtle ways and the more I can receive my wife as not mothering me or as me not seeing her or feeling her as a a mother and because what happens is when I’m in the intensity of that wound I’m I’m unconsciously projecting so much that any subtle movement that reminds me of even an affliction a shade of the relationship I had with my mother I’m instantly in that defensive posture that’s why I say a lot of it comes from me um I get that I get that but there is a and and you and I are going to just default into taking responsibility I don’t want us to do that in this episode like I literally want us to be like all right like so what would I crave from my woman when I am in a deep little boy wound that is not mother yeah and it’s it’s what I think is happening in in woman is fear and so she and I don’t know if it’s this autonomic unconscious response that just takes place but it’s I’m not going to see you as my capable partner I’m going to see you as this wounded little boy that can’t get beyond that place and now I have to be that it’s like the drama triangle like you’re the victim I’m going to be the Savior or the villain whatever like you’re the villain well I’m going to be the hero of it’s just this automatic default response I feel there’s a little bit of that happening yeah yeah no I I see that a lot it’s a very knee-jerk I think it’s a very deep fear and it’s a reasonable fear right again am I going to have to Mother him am I going to have to hold space for him when am I going to be able to like relax and be held right and and you know I tend to think I I was thinking about this this morning that in healthy relationships it’s probably something like a healthy polarized relationships it’s probably something like an 8020 7030 rule right like 70% of the time I should be holding the space and in the masculine and leading right 30% of the time I’m going to be I’m going to be a human and have emotions and fears and d and so us being able to both be able to fluidly move back and forth is important I think what you’re talking about is capacity right and so when I see a woman expanding her capacity to be with emotion be with her own emotion be with experience be with energy be with mind like actually like okay I’ve got some energy she’s not taking it totally personally she’s not collapsing she’s like you know I’m I’m having an experience um if when I see her nervous system expand to meet that something deep in me relaxes oh for sure something deep in me relaxes now of course if I wasn’t doing the same for her you know probably two times more than she is then I could understand why that would be draining that would be draining for her so before we move to the next question is there anything else about the emotional maturity you crave in the feminine that you want to bring to this conversation yeah it’s intrinsically connected to self-awareness piece and the the and desire as well so what I’m really looking for in in my feminine partner my woman is a desire for her to really want to grow and as she then cultivates that self-awareness and she deepens in her own processes and really connects to you know how she shows up in the world and what what’s that what that is connected to and what drives that and starts to make the shifts towards unhealth heal unhealthy towards healthy she then develops a capacity for more emotional resilience right and in that I know I can I can trust that she can hold more without defaulting to Panic or defensiveness or projection or her own shutdown or whatever whatever her shutdown looks like yeah and so that gives me a greater ability to be more in that range I’m also a type of guy man I just move stuff it like I I give you an example I scraped my [ __ ] car earlier when I came here just literally at the bottom of [ __ ] I came in and I said [ __ ] I scraped my car I’m done like I’m pretty much done like eight 90% of that charge is done yeah I’ve got a little bit of residue like I’m still pissed off cuz I scraped the front of it anyway whatever it is what it is yeah a man in his car yes it’s done just pissed off at it but but the intensity was there I released it because you know I released through action and that was but and I’m I’m pretty much done with it yeah I need to know that not that she knows that but that she has the emotional resilience yeah that she’s because she’s gone deep within herself CU for me how I Define resilience is our ability to um recover from challenge so if she exposes herself to her own internal Challenge and she then recovers from that she’s expanding herself yeah that means a lot to me yeah yeah I think this is so this so crucial for me as well like I clear stuff really fast really fast and once I’m just given some space to clear stuff it’s gone yeah we judgment for me as well yeah yeah I can clear stuff very fast and as long as it’s not you know personalized or um or you know again I see women go into this sort of knee-jerk reaction and and some of it might have to do with Mas anger right like the the stuff in their nervous system about masculine anger so resiliency feels really important to be resilient to understand that I’m not going to once you know once I clear stuff I’m good um it’s when you don’t let me clear stuff that deep resentment starts to build yeah because you withhold right withold your expression or or I’m it’s just like a deep rejection of my truth or my heart right that is my feminine going like [ __ ] you for not seeing me not you know not you know accepting me right yeah acceptance and just not feeling held man just not just not feeling held in it’s like I have to be a particular way again just like when I was a kid I got worst case can’t be myself and it’s being judged yeah yeah and when I’m when I’m emotional it’s bad um Boys Don’t Cry all that kind of [ __ ] right so I would also add one last piece to this thing around emotional maturity and that is courage oh yeah right like to be courageous enough to share your heart with me to share your truth with me to share your again openhearted you know there’s lots of practices on the embodied relationship experience platform about openhearted expression so just saying it’s out there so being courageous in like leaning into you know you might have some fear coming up Steph’s mad you know Steph’s mad okay like courage and curiosity in that moment would probably go a long way like long way okay I see you’re pissed my love what happened what’s going on and then you I’m I [ __ ] up my car yeah and oh poor baby and then you move on right and then you move on yeah okay so the next question I think I really love this question which is what is the um trait or characteristic of devotion in the feminine that uh deeply inspires you I know you said worship but I I think that there’s I’m curious I want to unpack what devotion means to you I can see it I don’t have a word for it just yet it will come to me but let me explain it it it’s it’s oh it came to me it’s it’s this deep Divine desire to Ravish a ravishment that oh like you like being ravished yeah yeah yeah it’s part it’s connected to worship yeah you know what I mean I’m seen in such a way that is Godlike and and and I’m and I’m really I’m aware of how this may come off right but I’m just being real Every Man Has This I know just like the every woman wants to have her [ __ ] li like she’s the goddess every man wants to have his [ __ ] worshiped like I’m God yeah yeah and it’s less coming from narcissism and ego and more more coming from deep deep Soul connection and trust and so if I keep sort of going underneath that it’s it’s just such a profound trust and there’s no room room for shame there’s no room for judgment there’s just this openness and open-heartedness that allows for a a continuity of the infinite to be explored right and and for every and it’s through the physical but it’s not just through the physical it’s through it’s through gaze it’s through breath I mean that’s obviously physical but but it’s it’s that becomes for me a gateway to something deeper and it’s not just sexual that’s a part of it for for sure for sure it is sacred sexuality and sacred intimacy is a big part of her and it’s also the way that I am held in her heart the way that she sees me and feels me without physical touch yeah literally through her gaze and and through what I feel in in the softness of her body yeah the softness of her heart is is the key is the key for me and and and this devotion when I talk about devotion it’s not it’s you know of course it feels nice for someone to like have de Devotion to my purpose to what I’m trying to do in the world you know I’m sure you feel the same like we work pretty [ __ ] hard and we’re in the trenches with people and we’re eating Shad every day and we’re you know what I mean like to have somebody who actually to actually sees that and is like wow like I see I see how much you do I see how you put yourself in the line of fire I see how you do that and have somebody really recognize that and be devotional to supporting that feels great and of course vice versa right like what is her Mission and are we supporting that and whatever her mission is Devotion to love I like to look at literally like that her orientation is to The Liberation expansion and expression of love over pattern again coming back to self-awareness over habit over fear over um what’s the word conditionality right so much conditional love out there man so much conditional love and to be devotional to love to me in a feminine partner means that her orientation I mean she’s not going to get it perfect all the time but that she’s keeps coming back to like okay what would create more love between us right now let me lean into that what would create more love in our experience right now what would create more um love in his heart what would allow me to feel more love just was what honors love over the kind of power struggle that we see that that to me is crucial yeah I think there’s tremendous maturity in that and there’s tremendous maturity for you know all of us being able to relate to to each other in that way and not being confined by the Clutter of life and the the the challenges and the responsibilities and to actually create spaciousness in our world like when I see my partner slowing down and creating spaciousness specifically for that and tuning to you know what my needs are yeah it’s it’s really yes it’s sexy but it’s really um goes beyond sexy like it’s sex and deeply healing it’s so like I’ve got tears in the back of my eyes like it’s right now it’s so deeply healing to be prioritized in that way and to be cared for in that way and to know that she’s holding the the I don’t know what the word is whether it’s the the pole maybe the pole of Love yeah and that’s a great way to describe yeah the pole of where where I can like I can really delve into love you you can hold that and I can expand into that as well wow yeah that’s very special yeah it’s very that’s a beautiful way to put it and and again this is a I like to think of that practice and that orientation like to me if that is the North Star if that is her North Star I’m going to trust her more right if her North Star is love over self-expression I’m going to trust her more if her North Star is love over success I’m going to trust her more if her North Star is love over I don’t know fill in the blank I’m going to trust her more and so that’s that’s a deep exploration for a lot of women and it requires so I don’t want to minimize it because it requires a tremendous amount of Courage for a woman to continually relax into it and to relax into it when we’re not necessarily perfectly trustable when that is like that is I think the difference between the power struggle and the healing space that we’re talking about right of course if like I want you to be devotional to the man that you know I am not necessarily the man I’m being right so if you’re devotional to the man you know I am you know I’m this type of man and I’m down here shaming me criticizing me is not going to get me up here but if you’re devotional to the man I am you are going to use your love your body your fierceness you might [ __ ] pound on my chest or scream in my face but your heart is open and you’re like wake up [ __ ] like I love you wake up I’m all for that I’m all for that but the kind of wound driven at shaming that I see man I see down I see it man comments that women put on my Instagram page about the men they’re with right now publicly I’m just like [ __ ] no wonder you know he doesn’t trust you like you’re out here shaming him in public and and I I don’t see men doing that I don’t either I don’t see men doing that I’m sorry ladies but I don’t see men doing that maybe I’m sure it’s happening but it’s happening a lot mathematically impossible for it to not happen it’s not a Comm it’s not man I don’t see it and and and so you know you can’t shame the boy and then demand the king yeah you can’t shame the little girl and demand the queen you know it’s just it’s just not realistic you know and it’s not fair it’s not fair to put that on on our partners it’s not sustainable it’s just it is not going to happen and if it does happen well it would never happen but if it does it’s it’s a matter of of trauma trains colliding and and you know repression coming through so strongly and it’s all false pretense it’s not real yeah yeah so this idea of devotion anything else that you want to add like the textures of devotion that you like I’ll tell I’ll give you one for me like this ride or die thing it’s like it’s you and me Keem we’re a team it’s you and me like okay the world’s you know pounding on you you know you got wounds coming up like we’re a team we’re together it’s it’s it it really is ride or die I think Beyonce and Jay-Z kind of nailed that yeah you know I’m gonna say something that I’m just going to say the word um unconditionality and I I I totally realize it’s loaded because you know a belief that I hold is that um this human love is conditional mhm but when we’re really speaking to love and and unity Consciousness I I don’t I I think it transcends conditions and so how do we constantly tap into that through aspects and expressions of Devotion to to touch unconditionality it’s almost like touching the great expanse that is infinite yeah and so and maybe this is a little more ideal I mean of experienced it I think it’s texture I think it’s like the what what we just talked about being devotional to love unconditionality is the Premier trait of being devotional to love yeah yeah yeah yeah and and actually feeling and experiencing and that’s not and again we’re talking about a m an emotionally mature individual that is doing their inner work that is self-aware that is willing to repair all of that it’s not like I’m out I would be out there breaking agreements every single moment of every day and expect her to be unconditionally devoted to just be real yeah yeah but there’s an unconditionality that if if I mess up if I succumb to something that or I break an agreement just use simple terms how do we repair from that like what does that actually look like or a lapse in Consciousness which is what I see most I mean I certainly you know try to be conscious a lot and I certainly [ __ ] it up and so again this part of emotional maturity how she what she makes that mean my lapse of Consciousness is not a not a removal of love is just a lapse of Consciousness what she makes that mean is definitely a sign of her emotional maturity but how she approaches it too like with gr courage and curiosity exactly exactly exactly yeah that’s I think we’re I think hopefully this is helpful to yall okay so so far we’ve talked about emotional maturity and what that means and then what what it means to be what what are the textures of devotion That We crave I’m curious what is the texture of um feminine I don’t know emot expression that immediately melts you like makes you just want to move towards her want to pull her in want to protect her like what’s the what’s the feminine trait emotional trait that truly melts your heart you know I’m just going to get really simple here um her visceral excitement and openness when she sees me maybe she hasn’t seen me for an hour or a day a week whatever it is and the Embrace and the pressing of you know bodyto body almost mer like her intention maybe it’s unconscious but it’s the merging that is really beautiful and is definitely a turn on and it it speaks to the you call that warmth like a oh it’s deep warmth really I mean and but but also visceral excitement and excitement to be in my that I’m in her life physically again in that way you know and it shows every her smile her her skin changes her her her her physical movement her animation towards me you know like magnetic like I need you in that she’s excited to see you yeah you know there’s this there’s this thing that happens all the time in movies where women you know run to a man and jump in his arms I would ask any woman watching that look at the men when that happens like all of those [ __ ] are smiling because that particular like level of excitement and level of warmth at I mean let’s just say you know my man is here my king is home I mean you know I mean all of those things feels really really good it feeds into the part of us as men that crave to be utilized that crave to be of value to our group to our cohort our family our village our tribe yeah it’s that when we carry utility and it’s shown and expressed in such immense even healthily intense Ways by others it’s that sense of purpose we we feel fulfillment we feel like oh I’m here I’m doing something I’m being value it speaks to that part of our I think that that’s a really great Point Steph you know like men so many men are even who are really working hard right you know like come to my programs I’m sure coming into yours a lot of men are working hard and they don’t still don’t feel value for what they’re doing they’re they the preference you know most of them are feeling critiqued for what they’re not doing right and it’s and and there obviously needs to be feedback right like being able to give me I love getting good openhearted feedback I love it from my woman you know from men I mean that’s just I [ __ ] love it um but being able to give feedback but also celebration M you know what I mean like those two things there has to be a relatively even ratio hopefully it’s 80% celebration 20% feedback yeah yeah no definitely man I I think it just it’s very it’s something that’s very Primal I think it’s how as men from a human perspective we’ve evolved we’ve evolved to you know protection and provision is also part of our DNA if you like part of our internal spiritual architecture and when we’re recognized it’s it’s and and you know so many people I’ve heard them go oh that’s just egoic and you’re just a wounded little not me specifically but you know me you’re just a a little boy speaking to that that you need the recognition it’s not like I need it to function or to be a better human I’m still on that path right it’s that it’s really beautiful and nurturing and it gives me access to a part of me that I otherwise wouldn’t have have because of the relationship we’re relational beings and again like I’m just a big believer of men needing to feel utility and it’s one of the ways that we expand and mature in the world it’s one of the ways I think that we we grow spiritually as well yeah and and I think that over the last I don’t know I mean probably since the dawn of time but especially over the last 50 60 years there’s been a call for men to open their hearts right like okay it’s time to come out of the you know off the battlefield it’s time to come out of like the constant accumulation and winning and and and so when men are working on the utility because I would call that I would call that a a currency open-heartedness is a currency so when a man is working on open-heartedness through practice or any kind of embodied work or therapy or anything when that heart opens it’s all coming out it’s all coming out the little boy’s coming out the the the devotional King is coming out the dark lover is coming out you know the the neurotic you know whatever is coming out like it’s all going to come out you can’t ask men to dedicate themselves to opening their hearts and then be choosy about which part that comes out of their hearts is acceptable here here’s one of the ways that I look at it and I I my perception of this is quite pragmatic just makes a lot of sense to me as far as we understand historically we’ve lived in quite harsh environmental conditions for the majority of our human existence yeah call it I don’t know 2 and yeah 2 and a half three million years of of homid roaming this Earth men specifically because of our hormonal profile because of our physical stature became more responsible naturally for elements of survival we spend so much time in survival so as a result of that we lacked capacity and range we lacked range in the human expression the last however many years I don’t call it a couple Industrial Revolution if you like maybe even a little bit before that maybe maybe actually the last couple of thousand years as we’ve gone deeper into philosophy and wisdom and thinking naturally and all of that maybe last 5,000 years we are now having a capacity to be different to not just have to survive the utility I’m speaking to is not just about protction and provision and providing it’s it’s a lot different now is it kind of containment that you’re talking it’s contain yeah and so now yes correct and now that that containment almost is expanding or the lids being removed and we’re able to touch into different parts of who we are as men as humans yeah and so this emotional maturity this spiritual contemplation this being different in relationship it’s all evolving and it’s all going to come out as you mentioned it’s not just going to be the desirable in the pretty yeah it’s going to get pretty [ __ ] ugly yeah our look our feminine can be just as wild and crazy as yours right 100% And and I know that this sets a lot of women off when I talk about this but you know the capacity to I I’m actually intuiting that a lot of this has to do with um with a woman’s relationship to her own feminine how was her own feminine treated when she was young if her own feminine was shamed or criticized or made wrong then your feminine is going to be shamed and criticized and made wrong I would say that the vast majority of vast majority I don’t know what the number is but of little girls were shamed for their own by society that so true that is so true yeah I mean I see it constantly yeah anecdotally I mean nine out of 10 yeah yeah probably so yeah it just you know stop crying shut up D you’re too much go sit down like it doesn’t take much completely disassociated mother with very little nurturing capacity a distant father if unavailable emotionally even physically like just where or fathers that don’t protect them from their mothers weirdness you know or fathers that are abusive themselves are all of them man that strips away that that little person is so self-referential they make it mean that it’s all about them it’s my fault and they develop this idea of low self-worth and I’m nothing so of course they’re going to project that to protect themselves this is where back which is fine I want say that you don’t have to have that healed to attract a high value man you just need to be aware that and aware that it’s there and willing to lean into it and heal it I’ll [ __ ] go to the depths of hell with a woman I love no you won who’s you know I will no you with a woman who’s willing to go into her wounds and the Beautiful Thing I love about you man from what I’ve witnessed is that you didn’t even put a [ __ ] Tim stamp on that no which is pretty remark to me that’s the most to me that is like the deepest use of my time is to be in the trenches with somebody I love unpacking wounds holding space clearing [ __ ] like to me that’s my purpose Liber that liberates love and and of course I want a woman who is just as you know maybe not just as committed because I’m a freak but but you know deeply appreciates it and is committed to like that kind of courageous you know uh what do you call exporation exploration excavation yeah it’s into the underworld it certainly is I I want a woman who wants to go into the underworld with me like courageously openheartedly and and me go in there with her and we just like and Into My Underworld I want go into my underworld sure I’m very happy to go into both yeah no that that and I think that’s the thing like yeah well sometimes I’m not happy to go into an underworld and that’s when I’m coming from maybe immaturity and I and I of course I own that where it feels like it’s too much for me or I’m just being stubborn or I’m shut down or whatever it may be well I think a lot of men need an invitation and a little bit of just a heads up hey we’re going into the underworld heads up is everything yeah heads up is everything man both ways it’s everything oh I so many women just feel like oh I just need to dump whatever’s happening in me right now and he if he’s not willing to hold it without any consent or checking in or invitation or container well it it sets context though as well it’s a preparedness I like to know that if I’m about to go ideally if I’m about to go to war then okay I’m about to go deep into something I know that it’s happening and look I also get that life isn’t always like that and you know just for a moment I was just reflecting on my own self where I have been what I crave and what I ask for which is some preparedness I have been the antithesis of that in my relationship because as you know I’m boundary lesson one up real work so you know which means that I’m some I can be sometimes which is not preparedness for her but I then expect it from from from her which is of course so look we we all we all we’re all going to do this we’re all going to Spring our our underworld on to our partners we’re all going to do it men do it too of course and and um just from coming back to like What We crave as Men We crave somebody who’s like all right going in let’s go I’m I’m you want me to go into the underworld with you or you want to do this yourself you you know you want to take a hero’s dose and like sit in front of the fire and go into the underworld by yourself or you want want me to come with you and you know I love that like that kind of um that shakes things up I mean imagine actually hearing that from your Woman in real time yeah hey you’re you’re getting really angry and it feels a little volatile you’re going to go somewhere I’ll go with you or do you want to go by yourself like I’d be like what the [ __ ] is happening right now are you really this is awesome yeah that see that that that that’s the Advent you know that to me is the Courage the adventurer um and just the bad that’s the kind of badass emotional capacity that I crave right to be able to like go all right like you know I got wild [ __ ] going on in my heart you’ve got wild [ __ ] like let’s be adventurers let’s [ __ ] go in yeah I I love that you bookmarked that CU that is that would be awesome um and I’ve had that happen I’ve had I have had Partners do that and it’s been it’s been like you said before and I really want women to hear this it’s been both deeply healing and sexy MH like it it it it’s it it it’s both nourish it just nourishes down to the [ __ ] core you know when a woman can do that okay so I have one last question for us to dive into and I I I set this up with a you know my teacher used to have us stand in front of each other not knowing each other you know have a man and woman stand in front of each other and he would ask the man tell her what you would need in order to want to take her away way to a desert island for the rest of your life and we would have to feel into like the you know that piece of and it was very yogic it was in the moment because often times we didn’t know them it would be something like I’d need to feel your heart softer I’d need to feel your eyes softer I’d need to feel more pleasure in your hips right need to feel whatever it is um same kind of question but in the emotional realm like in the Realms of emotional safety emotional maturity emotional expression we didn’t really talk about emotional expression and I think that’s a really important thing but do yeah I think it’ll dovetail into this question but in all of those Realms what are the traits that make you want to claim her forever I think we have touched on a couple I think we’ve touched on many of them I I think willingness to be spontaneous or spontaneity specifically for me um willingness to willingness really underpins a lot of this it’s it’s it’s that are you willing to go to the unknown are you willing to be mysterious so so I would also at a human level be craving novelty and variety right and so how do we um be that with each other in in in Forever time so to speak right and are you willing to to change and and and and observe yourself and are you willing to do something different that may be scary courage is part of that as well yeah um it seems like you’re talking about range yeah range is a big part of it you know like the capacity to be every expression of every emotion and texture the world has to offer something like that yeah yeah and and I’d probably I’d probably want to add to that as well are you willing to this is back to what we just spoke about a moment ago but I’m just going to expand on it are you really willing to hold and not judge and be curious about and open to my truth in in in every moment and so if in in that moment and I’ve given it I’ve I’ve sat with it in maturity trust that and in that moment I’m I’m sharing something that may be really difficult for you to hear because it’s about you it’s about us yeah how do you hold that yeah do you push that away do you blame and shame or do you really lean in o i mean that is so so if the masculine the way I interpret that is if the masculine values truth which most the masculine and almost every human values truth then your capacity to be with my truth even if you don’t agree with it even if it doesn’t land for you even if it doesn’t you know feel right to you your capacity to at least honor that it’s my truth and not blame and shame and not Gaslight and not do all those things and not shut down forever and not shut down like even if you have an emotional response to it um but to to I I’m curious about the difference between holding it and meeting it yeah I think I think hold so that’s really interesting so what immediately comes to me is holding it is almost there’s numbing to holding it meeting it there’s more openness cuz now she’s going to really feel yeah what that truth is and she’s meeting it with where she’s at as opposed to just and say oh okay I hear you I got that holding it’s okay but I think there’s a numbing possibly Associated like a disassociation yeah I also think that women immediately go to holding space and so a distinction I always like to make and the thing that I prefer like I don’t want you to just sit there like a stone and hold space for me I I want you to meet it like what’s happening in your truth yeah what’s happening in your body as you hear my truth without blame shame or you know like stabbing me in the Heart Right like you know what what is meeting it meeting it even if that meeting it is a is a are tears and even that meeting it is you know some kind of empathy but just but meeting it and so I I really want I really want women to understand that difference because often times women will default into thinking that they need to hold space rather than meat so it’s a very beautiful Su subtle yogic and just sort of embodied difference M what else what else would would cause you to want to take her away to a desert island for the rest of your life trust I trust that she’s she’s got me that um yeah I mean it’s just simple man that she’s got me yeah I mean I can obviously go deeper into that I think it’s in all all facets and all aspects of life it’s she’s got my mind she’s got my body she’s got that that that that worship and devotion is there and again I’m not asking her for guarantees that it’s going to be like that forever big part of she has to do that all day every day of course right definitely not no no no it’s just that it’s it’s present it lives within her it’s a desire that she holds I think desire actually desire itself the energetic of Desire is something that I would want you know and and and another thing that I would want is you know her sense to her sense of being devoted to like you said love but being devoted to intimacy and connection and closeness and being the pole for that as well and being the wisdom and the stand for that in our relationship and in our physical environment as well yeah yeah to have her hold the pole of love and the and the pole of nurturance is attached to that for me deep deep nurturance yeah yeah which brings me back to this idea of like so you know this idea of like meeting meeting him rather than just holding space and then not mothering him I want to just one more time touch on that cuz I know it’s such a huge issue for for both Partners so to me what makes it not mothering is that there is Queen and or there is sexuality could be flirting could be teasing could be could be like the regalness of the queen right there’s a huge difference between being a demand for my Ascension and and a a Critic of my you know uh limitations right and and and so being able to like a woman who can demand my Ascension without chopping the legs out from under me that’s somebody I’d want to spend the rest of my life with yeah and the other part to that if we’re relating it specifically to the mother is there’s there’s truth there’s no manipulation yeah there’s no yeah there’s no unconscious projected leeching there’s no there’s no sucking There’s No sucking There’s no leeching energy I need you son to be this way so that I can feel okay because my relationship with your father’s [ __ ] yeah you know as or or I haven’t healed from so much and you’re my Saving Grace I’m putting everything into you and the demand and the expectations cuz that’s a big part of the mother wound for so many yeah yeah yeah you h another thing that I’ve I’ve been T I’ve been really feeling which is the and look men are vampiric too right men are vampiric too they’ve been vampiric for since the dawn of time but really feeling the part of what I would need what I would need to feel to be emotionally safe is to not feel like to feel her sovereignty over her ability to merge with intermingle with become in Union with without sucking like the sucking of energy the sucking of presence is just as gnarly although it’s rarely talked about as you know the sucking of Shakti right or the like you know in a beautiful healthy relationship of course there’s this like you know microcosmic orbit between the two of presence and shocky of Consciousness and shockd and you know but um yeah I need to know you’re not just going to suck off of me M yeah my attention my providership my leadership you’re not just going to suck yeah and and I’d say another thing as well in answer your question directly is um openness and receiving like she she really willing to receive receive me and and also and also show me how to receive in deeper capacities because my my sense is that her being has even greater access to that so show me how to be I have access to that but show me how to have even greater access to that yeah yeah now they’re way ahead in the receptivity muscle right so yes yes that’s it and so you know as we as we wrap this up man I I I um yeah I’m just curious on any final thoughts of of what you would want women to know about what you crave and what you believe men Crave in this emotional realm yeah I mean man for me I just I really just crave to be seen and and and and love for who I am as I am in in non-judgmental ways and in compassionate ways and and loving nurturing ways and I totally own that sometimes it’s difficult for me to receive that yeah because even though it’s not new it still feels new sometimes you know um but the Persistence of being able to see me in that way and just really see me is just very heing for me personally you know and and and a lot of men a lot of men and a lot of men don’t want to admit that cuz it immediate gets labeled as his feminine and so a lot of men have shame around that I mean I’m pretty comfortable with my level of quite masculinity so again not not perfect but I I I trust my capacity in those Realms and so and I really value Range man I I really value range in human expression so and I see this you know when you ask about for men I see this in men man so many men are just so hungry to just it goes back to that utility conversation to be valued yeah to just be valued man just to be be told thank you yeah thank you I see you know there’s a song called I think it’s called to be a man but I can’t remember his name I’m pretty sure it’s to be a man man it gets me every time I could cry every time and it just speaks to the Simplicity of what a a man’s journey is like like what his life is like and how unseen he is and how unappreciated he generally is in his family life and by society as well and again I’m not this isn’t a who is me men are men are so disadvantaged not at all man we’re talking about accessing parts of ourselves that really haven’t we haven’t had permission or capacity opportunity to access in a yeah forever well and I think the thing I mean thank you for saying that cuz I know a lot of men feel that way right and and again we’re talking about men who are on a path on a journey we’re not talking to guys you know playing video games sitting on the couch ripping bong hits for 10 hours a day right we’re talking about guys who are really stepping in and trying and and to be seen for that you know I always have this experience in workshops where I have at some point in the practice I have women look into their men’s eyes and just repeat you’re such a good man and guys are balling 30 seconds into it do something very similar ridiculous man it is ridiculous yeah yeah it is such a it is such a deep wound and some of it is you know some of it is guilt over what men have done to women and it’s what they’ve individually done to other people yeah yeah some of it is some of it is legit but I think so there’s so many good men out there just trying to get better and uh and being seen in that I think is crucial and you know I always like to think about it in terms of generosity you know like maybe your man’s not perfect maybe he’s not right you know maybe he has room to grow and many areas of his life but like you know be generous you know be generous to him and and and trust that he’s trying trust that he’s doing his best um yeah CU it does feel like especially since me too you know totally valid a lot of reasons but it’s just seemed like that there’s just such a knee-jerk reaction to [ __ ] cut and castrate there’s been a Schism since then definitely has a rupture in the in it’s gone a little too far into the you know take the [ __ ] head swing so hard right can I just say something to the example you gave about you know women speaking love into men’s hearts and then just men crying and and and you spoke specifically you mentioned guilt right that’s just a perfect example of how nurturance not from a mother energy yeah that guil those tears is guilt in motion guilt that is once in this physical and etheric organism is animating it’s moving through tears through through that it’s moving that means it’s freeing from his system that means it’s not impacting him anymore in the ways it does it’s not driving him he’s not compensa that’s right he’s not compensating for that anymore he’s got more spaciousness to give to expanding his own self to take more ownership of other stuff he man it that’s how freeing a woman’s devotion love and non-judgment and nurturing is it’s a perfect [ __ ] example yeah yeah yeah exactly I get because it’s so it’s so simple it’s so simple and hard to do I get it it is it is hard to do but not as hard know I mean like most women will once they kind of once they can clear away the past and they can be in the present moment and they’re like wow like I can see what a good man you are I can and yeah it it crushes men every time the other one that crushes men every time is I trust you you know like I trust you I’ll Trust David used to use this thing if I trust you I’ll follow you anywhere and it was again all the men were [ __ ] weak in so you know we’re complicated but you know I like this idea I think I want to wrap it up by saying this the goal is holistic Humanity right the goal is not this sort of stifi masculine and you know this Wild open feminine only the goal is for us to be whole integrated human beings and if we’re going to use polarity as a tool not a Dogma a tool then being fluid in the use of our range of feminine and the depth of our masculine back and forth back and forth back and forth in a in a in a you know an ecosystem a relational ecosystem right that is where I think we’re going to have really deep um what’s the word I’m looking at that kind of like an explosion of conscious love when we can do that so neither one neither man or woman or either any partner is hiding something afraid to bring something afraid to share a truth and so this capacity this agility of being able to move in and out of your masculine and feminine no matter what your gender is is is crucial for that healing and that sort of explosion of conscious love just the way you outlined man it’s like it was very you did it perfectly of like this is what happens he’s not carrying this because you let it you helped Let It Out Your Love Yes opened up the floodgates and it’s out now so he’s not going to be spreading that [ __ ] all over the world yes and in that disregulation disregulated expression of those tears and whatever it is he will just like the pendulum swings sometimes in negative unhealthy ways it will swing to a more regulated state so he starts to feel what regulation in my nervous system feels like I don’t have to feel so tense all the time wow that’s interesting that’s really interesting and Powerful yeah you bring up this point of Regulation and I think that there’s not enough discussion about co-regulation is there so not yeah there’s not not enough discussion about co-regulation and I think maybe there’s another episode to do on that because it’s so huge how do you co-regulate each other right so that each person’s nervous system gets to drop into a parasympathetic open receptive hum you know quickly and I think there’s a whole man that’s a that’s maybe even a [ __ ] whole Workshop just on co-regulation what that would it’s a big part of what I do in the world it’s a big part of what you know my wife and I attempt to do because when I say attempt like we get it but we sometimes don’t get it and it’s and sometimes we go to extremes with it and we have to come back and it’s it’s a process man like it’s it’s one of the most for me one of the most important things and gateways to deeper spiritual and relational Mastery and maturity which is what you spoke to a few moments ago it’s co-regulation yeah and it’s it’s helping it’s it’s because here’s the thing with for me for co-regulation you can’t help you can’t be in co-regulation unless you’re doing your own deep inner work and you’re learning to regulate your own self yeah that’s part of what we spoke to Full Circle moment from the beginning is is the self-awareness and doing deep inner work yeah yeah and then you know and then to be able to take that and and give like just hand on heart classic co-regulation practice hand on heart um hand on up and down the spine breathing together pressing bellies I mean there’s so many co-regulation practices but but yes I want my I want my partner to be devotional to love through those kinds of things I think that’s what we’re talking about yeah this was awesome thank you man I really I really I really loved getting into this with you man and I I you’re the first person that came to mind when this topic hit thanks that means a lot yeah yeah and so where can we find you my long complex name is stepanos Sandos on on any social medias yeah I have a link yeah and my website Stephanos sos.com