Once I connected to pleasure and to pussy and my aliveness and I realized that connected me to my divinity, the thing I’d always been searching for and my sacred, I got the download, oh shit, I have to tell every woman that the goddess lives in her.

When a woman actually feels and experiences pleasure and knows her pleasure and owns her pleasure, it’s healing. Welcome to the Embodied Relationship Experience podcast. My name is John Wineland. Today, I have a special treat.

I’m joined by my dear friend, Regina Tomyshauer, founder of the School of Womanly Arts and best-selling author of Pussy Reclamation. Best fucking title. Thank you. Best title. And we’re going to get into all things.

She’s been in the space for many years and we’ve become dear friends over the years. And so we’re going to get into some lessons in love in this episode and what we’ve learned both personally and what we’ve seen in the space and really dive into what we think are the great lessons in love that we’ve learned over the years.

Before we get started, I want to make a pitch for teacher training, which just launched. We just opened up the registration for that. It’s already half full. This is our signature program. It’s a year-long program for five-day intensives.

It is a beautiful full meal of all things, embodiment, sexual polarity, intimacy, sacred intimacy, self-expression, like you name it, it really covers a lot of beautiful things. So the link is below if you’re interested.

And then for those of you in Europe, we just announced our workshop in Mallorca, which is going to be in late July and it’s called The Art of Sacred Intimacy. Last year we were in Portugal. It was a blast.

So please join us. There’s not a lot of spots for that. So if you’re interested, jump in. Let’s just introduce you to my audience. Many people probably already know you. You’ve been in relational and sexual intimacy.

I’m basically a legend. Yeah, you are a legend. You still do how? You are a legend. I have a school in New York City, Mamajina School of Womenly Arts. I went from a small handful of women in my living room to teaching thousands and thousands of women at the Javits Center and other places all over New York.

And I’ve taught over 80,000 people in my career. The school was born the same year that my daughter was. So it is now, it’s going to be 27, which is 26. So I don’t know, mama’s been cranking it out, turning on pussies and, you know.

Mama’s been cranking it out. Learning, learning, learning, learning. Yeah. So, okay, let’s start with that, because I think it’d be really cool. You’ve been a teacher for many years, I’ve been a teacher for many years, and I’d love to just get a sense of what’s on your dashboard now.

What are the things that you’ve learned or are learning, that might be maybe trends you’ve seen over the years or just flash realizations that have come to you? Let’s see. I would say, I imagine that a lot of people who listen to you have some kind of longing.

They know that there’s a part of themselves that is being called forward, and that’s why they are attracted to your portal and what you open, that might even call it a desire or a mission, or some calling to be of service in some way.

So, I want to specifically speak to those people who are here to hold space, not only for their own lives, but for something even greater than they could possibly dream or imagine. So, I want to say that pathway is such a wild ride.

There are heights where you reach mountaintops that you can’t even believe the view, and you’re so dazzled and so overcome and so feeling like you’re in the pocket of God, goddess, and just like you are untouchable and unstoppable.

Then there’s times when Kali comes the great goddess of destruction, and just everything blows up in your- Right, down into the underworld with in Hades and with Inanna and all those people that really are legendary for mothers and fathers who really went down.

So, I want to say the ride is intense, and where you and I started to connect, it was a few years ago, I reached a beautiful pinnacle. of where I was on huge stages teaching thousands and thousands of people.

And then I just got a message from the great pussy in the sky, kind of loud and clear, like stop this. And I was like, I don’t want to stop it, it’s so much fun. What do you mean, stop it? Even though it’s killing me, stop?

And then boom, right after that COVID hit that put our whole lives and everybody, all of us in some kind of uproar, turmoil, rootlessness, wandering, homeless, some way we are each journeying. And I think maybe beginning to ground and beginning to find our footing in new ways.

And for me, what happened was I had so much joy as myself, as I created a persona of Mama Gina. Yeah. And I got to be spectacular, like. as Mamajina, I could do no wrong when I was on the stage, but the part called Regina was very, there was scarce, like the wardrobe differences.

Mamajina had like closets filled with fabulous fluffy things, and Mamajina, and Regina had like sweatpants, and she was always recovering from whatever Mamajina did. She was the one who had to deal with the hangover.

Oh, yeah. Sounds familiar. It became time for me to be paying attention to the Regina part, which in some ways looked and felt like a retraction, or maybe a mulching, because the earth has to mulch. You know, we can’t be.

Yeah, and things and everything has a season. You know what, I don’t want to- That’s a song, John. Yes, I don’t want to drop the point that you made to people who are here and interested in wanting to like walk this path of embodiment, sacred intimacy, full expression, because it’s so true, and I think, you know, I see all these fresh new faces that like come into workshop.

Thank God that they’re coming. Yeah, thank God. But the message that it is a wild ride, that you have no idea what’s going to happen. If I had any idea, you know, 20 years ago, when I started this work, and 18 years ago, when I found my teacher and started to get into it, what my life would actually turn into, both the incredibly painful parts, and the wild expansive parts, I could not have imagined it.

And I imagine you’ve had like, you had a similar experience. Crazy. Right? The woman I was before I started this, and the woman I am now, like they wouldn’t even notice each other, and you know, if they passed on the street.

But I think the woman that I was would be like, holy shit, you’re kidding. That’s pretty cool. Well done, Queen. Like, wow. Because I was just the opposite of, you know, I’m, so charismatic and charming and adorable and I’m a great people person and I’m loud and wild, but I’m also the opposite, very introverted and quiet and that part was ruling my days before I really started this path and now I’m finding a happy medium.

So I would say the most recent transition, which is the question you began with, is that I’ve been mulching or going back into the chrysalis and being that gushy part between the, I don’t know, a butterfly and a new butterfly and I’ve been really having a chance to deepen the content of my work.

by getting smaller rather than getting bigger. Right now, I don’t do the big stages. What I’m doing is teaching teachers and leading leaders. I’m about to launch next weekend something called Pussy Leadership Mastermind, where I have 35 women who are leaders in their own right in the world, really potent, powerful women, and I’m going to take them deeper and I’m going to have them access even further reaches of their powers.

That’s one thing I do. I do another class where I train people to lead my technology. It’s a certification class. Then I have one brand new basic course, which is at a really good price point that’s launching in the fall.

So people should jump on my mailing list, which is mamajeanas.com to learn about that because it is so damn good. I have refined these tools and technologies and it’s like the basic school of woman that every woman needs and that’s coming up in the fall.

You have put in the 10,000 plus hours. I know, when I think about it, when I talk to people who are wanting to walk this path, I can’t help but just say it really does take, I don’t know, I think it was about 10 years in that I started to feel like, oh, okay, now I’m really, it’s not just me going through the motions, like I’m actually tapped into something and transmitting something deeper.

I imagine you had a similar experience as well. I think I thought I was great from the beginning. My mission is so potent inside of me that doesn’t flicker, it does not waver. So before I connected with Pussy, which is my nickname.

For the divine. Yeah, for that portal inside of a woman or a man, that aliveness, that life force, it’s the same Shakti energy that pulses through the rivers. in the sunshine and the rainstorms, but we have this crazy privilege as human beings.

We have volitional heat. Animals can’t turn on this shock to energy like we can. We can light it the fuck up anytime we want. And to me, that’s how you pray, is you ignite that fire within. And so, once I had that experience, I was so in the dark.

I had a family with domestic violence, and I experienced abuse from the time I was a baby. So for me, my inner light was out. But once I connected to pleasure and to pussy and my aliveness, and I realized that connected me to my divinity, the thing I’d always been searching for, and my sacred, I got the download.

Oh shit, I have to tell every woman. Yeah. that the goddess lives in her and I cannot stop. So I was just on a roll. I knew I didn’t know what the fuck I was doing. So I did take five years of study at Lafayette Morehouse, moved into a sex, went from a celibate hermit to moving into a sex commune.

I think I just was so driven, I didn’t care if I was good. Yeah, I had a similar experience where I have to do this, even though I know in many ways I’m not still clear what I’m doing. I know that I have to do it.

And then reps matter, you know, just continuing to teach and try new things and experiment and like reps do matter for people. So I think as if you wanted to give any other advice to people who want, because there’s this whole new generation of people that are wanting to lead in bottom, yeah, it is beautiful, right?

And they’re gonna take us higher. They’re gonna leave us in the fucking dust, man. They are gonna expand this work in their own brilliance, in their own ways, and I’m so excited to see what is ahead and to experience it.

And I think that the only message I would have is just fucking do it, like Nike, just do it. Don’t stop because you don’t think you know anything. Just do it. And that’s what makes us us. Yeah, yeah, I love that.

And I love this idea of just do it and innovate. Like don’t just take what I teach or what you teach, but innovate, like become so good at your practice, because once you’re really good at your practice, I’ve found that’s when the downloads start.

That’s when all of a sudden you’re in the middle of practice and then you’ll get this idea or hit of how to do something or how to move or how to breathe or how to open this chakra to do this thing. But it comes as the result of practice.

And I’m just curious, because I pound the table on this all the fucking time, like, are you practicing daily? That is the whole thing. It is the whole thing. It’s the whole fucking thing. What, tell me back there.

Your daily practices. Okay, so I usually practice, I was thinking about this this morning because I was gonna make a post on it, but I’m actually up to about two to three hours a day of practice. Yeah.

So some of it is I’ll wake up, I will have coffee. I will have coffee. That’s because you’re wise. Because I am human. That’s because you’re wise. Yeah, so I’ll wake up. And how do you take your coffee?

I wanna take the whole ride with you. I take my coffee with a scoop of creatine, some frost up, half and half. Creatine’s like a supplement for your brain. Oh, good, I got it, okay. Scoop of creatine, it doesn’t taste good, but so cream and then stevia and cinnamon.

That sounds delicious. It’s really good. I know, I know. I have a frother that like froths it up for me. And yeah, I’m a big fan. Okay, that’s good. I actually take a frother with me when I travel. It’s one of those little ones that you stick in.

No, no, no, like actually one that’s even better that heats it up and froths, yeah. Oh, that’s good. I travel with a little stick one that you can put it in and go work. Yeah, we need our creature comfort.

So I’ll wake up, I’ll have coffee, usually about 20 minutes into it, I’ll go sit outside and I’ll do what’s called the bird sit, which is where you just sit and listen to nature for a few minutes, usually 10, 15 minutes.

I can feel that in my body right now. Yeah, yeah. And then I will go do a yoga or qigong and then I’ll go into a deeper meditation and it’ll either be a walking meditation, which is about an hour, or it’ll be a sitting meditation, which is 30 to 40 minutes.

So that’s like my morning routine. And then in the evening, I have a set of prayers and mantras that I do that usually take about 45 minutes where I’m chanting and some of it’s silent and some of it’s loud.

You are like rocking that holy fucking vibe so hard right now, maybe, I’m good. But I practice, I don’t, and then I will mix in sexual practice a few times a week. And what do you do for sexual practice?

It’s solo right now, but it’s great. Yeah, so solo is neat actually, solo is great. But so when I’m with a partner, it’s different. But when I’m solo, then it’s touching myself while doing certain kinds of breath as the pleasure sort of grows, expanding it, sort of pressing it into the room or expanding my awareness in it.

And so the idea is to not only circulate the sexual energy, but then make it a meditative force. And I’ll do that for 30 minutes or so. That’s beautiful. Without ejaculation, guys, you can pull it off.

So you’re touching mostly your cock, not the rest of your body? That is a good point. Sometimes I’ll have pleasure, I’ll have a pleasure. It’s not so much the pleasure practice that I’m going for. It’s the circulation of sexual energy that I’m going for.

Okay, got it. Yeah, yeah. Whereas, but it’s probably a good thing for men to practice, to take a good hour of pleasure practice. That would be really. That would be something I think I could learn from you.

It’s just, you know, more things to do. But I realize that I’ve said this to people before, I said this to people who come to my work, like look, the momentum of the karma and the patterning that you’ve inherited from your family and from your life needs a shit ton of energy.

And I think that’s part of what you bring, like you teach women how to cultivate energy to basically disrupt, destroy, overcome patterns. Is that a fair thing to say? That’s an interesting way to put it.

I think that’s what happens. But what I’ll do is teach women to access and own. and know their pussies, right? To be able to know- Which is the ultimate energy source. I mean, you know, the heart, I would argue the heart too.

The force of life, the circle of life. All of us got pushed through a pussy as, you know, we’re created through a pussy. So, I find that when a woman begins to own her pussy, she owns her life in a very different way.

And also the experience of pleasure, as you know, when a woman actually feels and experiences pleasure and knows her pleasure and owns her pleasure, it’s healing. It heals forwards and backwards in time because she becomes in control of turning on those neurotransmitters, like betta endorphin and serotonin and prolactin, like- Oxytocin.

She’s in control of it. And she can, even if she’s, let’s say, standing there in the most boring meeting with a bunch of suits, she can connect with her pleasure, meaning connect with her higher power, meaning connect with her brilliance, her intuition, her ability to see everything that’s going on kind of forwards and backwards in time and know and own the room from a different power source.

It is a different way to move as a woman in the world. And it actually more healing for me than pleasure. It’s what kind of broke me out. I didn’t really know how broken I was because of my childhood.

But once I accessed pleasure, I got to experience my potency, my confidence, my ability to take risks. I’m not saying that pleasure is the ultimate answer, I’m saying it’s an Awakener, it’s an Invitation, it’s an Expander.

I’ve done a lot of other cool things like IFS therapy, which is internal family system. Super potent. Super helpful for me. And other different courses I’ve taken that have been amazing. I just took this one called Sapiens.

Oh yeah, I know that course. I haven’t done it, but I know of it. It’s so damn cool and really, really, really healing and fun. So I’m always experimenting with things because it’s just good to learn and own more and more about all.

And keep learning. I just spent a week with Joe Dispenza. Oh, how was that? It was fun. It was really good. Great. It was good. I mean, it’s interesting. He basically brings in Kundalini, meditation, quantum physics, and I’m trying to think what else he would call it.

Activation, there’s activation, breath work, I suppose. But he combines it in a way and he really doms us into, you’re practicing five hours a day, four or five hours a day. Do you sleep at all? Very little, five, six hours.

Like we were up for four AM meditation. So I got a lot out of it, mainly because it wasn’t new, some of it was new, but it wasn’t new, but just the way that he like makes you… No, you teach, I teach.

You’ve got to like put, you’ve got to dom people into opening. You’ve got to dom people into pleasure because their resistance will come. Yeah. So yeah, I love that. And I think that that’s a beautiful message for teachers.

Like just don’t stop, you know, you and I are pretty seasoned veterans and we’re still learning. I’ve been wanting to take one of his, so… It was good, I’d recommend it. Okay, I’ll put it on the list.

Yeah, yeah. And I’m going to hop on the sapiens thing. Yeah, you got it, it’s so fun. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I want to pick up on something that you stated earlier, which is this distinction between, you know, being on purpose and transmitting what you’ve known through your practice and through your learnings and then being home and then obviously being in your own, being in relationships in your own right.

And I think it’d be really cool. And people are also very interested. They always want to know about my personal life. I imagine people always want to know about your personal life. And so maybe you could talk a little bit about how you’ve worked with those two things or how you’re trying to integrate those two things or what are your lessons there that might be helpful.

Teachers are, generally speaking, are guru types. Like we’re the most fucked up of all people, like absolutely. You teach what you need to learn. In my case, you know, I definitely started this journey because I was so broken and because I always wanted to, I wanted to find love.

You know, I wanted to find love and I really didn’t know how. And I saw and felt that connecting to my erotic aliveness and my pussy. and my turn on and my pleasure was such a game changer for me, and so that’s why I began to teach because I was like, okay, let me do this because this is such a big help.

And I thought that maybe just my turn on alone could start to generate my ability to attract what I wanted. And it sure as hell did. And it’s been such an adventure of a life. I’m so grateful, grateful, grateful for every Nook and Karani and turn and winding road and so forth.

And I was very impacted by, let’s say, other archetypes of goddesses and courtesans and women that I saw who connected to their source energy and were, you know, masterful creative voices and presences in the world.

So I studied those women and researched those and modeled myself. I studied the courtesans because they were women that, like me, started out with nothing and became the legendary. They became the arbiters of taste.

They were like the movie stars in the 14th, 15th, 16th century. They became the oracles for men of power as well, right? Absolutely. And the muses. And I thought that is pretty cool and pretty amazing that a woman who has nothing could make that transition.

And they were literally women that choose to plug into the discipline and the practice of pleasure despite their circumstances. They might have been so impoverished, maybe even dying of tuberculosis, which was very popular in those centuries.

But they lived in deep, sacred appreciation of every single minute. And they refused to do anything but savor every drop of their lives. And it gave them a potency and a power that had them ascend. And they also practiced all of the womanly arts.

They practiced the art of owning your beauty, the art of flirtation, the art of having fun no matter what, the art of owning your inner bitch. They practiced what it means to be a woman. And that’s why I started my school, because so impacted by these women.

And they actually were women that preceded the woman’s movement. It was the woman’s movement. Women saw how free the courtesans were. And they were like, we want that freedom. But they created the movement through anger, which was righteous, and necessary, and important.

But the anger killed the art of being a woman. And this is a time- when we can live both. I think that’s such a powerful point, because you can extrapolate that into relationship, right? Like, that all of the desire to be the fullest love that you can be and be the fullest pleasure and tap into that source that you’re talking about gets just squashed by resentment.

Yeah, exactly. And so I loved all of that, and yet I wanted something super simple. I wanted in this body, in this lifetime, to be loved by a man where I could really feel it, and I could feel every single drop of devotional true love, which is hard if you never had it.

Yeah, it wasn’t modeled for you. No way. I mean, when I was 30 years old, I decided to become a dancer without a single lesson. which my wonderful teacher explained to me that I had no sense memory of any steps in my body, so he would stay after class with me.

I’d pay him for like an extra hour and he would teach me things like pas de bourree, pas de bourree, just over and over for like an hour after every class because I was so slow because they didn’t have it in my body.

And then finally I got it with the practice and the repetition. And for me, being able to learn how to surrender into love as a woman, not as a courtesan, not as a goddess, not as mama Gina, but just be Regina, loved.

Wow, that has been, that’s been the journey I would say of my last five years is to be able to both learn how to surrender my heart to love and to receive love. Complicated for me. Probably y’all are really good at it for me.

No, a lot of people are hot messes out there, trust me. Yeah, but I think it’s important to recognize and own where we’re hot messes. I’ve certainly gone through it the last five, since my daughter died six years ago, I’ve just gone through not quite knowing exactly how to relate or it’s a humbling thing.

It’s funny because I was writing my book and I had the book all lined out, the three pillars of sacred intimacy and it was just like writing itself. And then my relationship ended and I realized that there were all of these things that I hadn’t attended to that the ending of this relationship brought into stark, my Saturn return didn’t help, right?

So it was just like, here you go buddy, here it is, go back in. And so I went and rewrote the intro to talk about just like, wow, like I have all this capacity and skill to create pleasure, to create energy, to create connection, to love deeply, create magic, like, you know, I got that.

But the thing about the early childhood development pieces that are still stuck in the system about am I lovable or am I worthy or, you know, all of those things, right? Like laid, like Leviathan at the bottom of the lake and came up.

And so I’ve spent the last year really going into all those things. And I think, I just think it’s important that, you know, people get to think, know it all and have it worked out or all of that or just human trying to figure their shit out and then bring it, bring it to the teachings.

You know, I mean, the one thing I can say for sure, and I’m sure you feel this way, is like, I go fucking first. Like, I will go into the underworld. I will look at my shit. Yeah, you will. I do, I do.

And you will talk to my lens, damn. And then I come out and I’m like, all right, here’s what I learned. Hopefully it’s helpful to somebody else. And so I imagine that’s what you’ve been through the last few years.

Yeah, you know, it’s so fascinating to me because when I was teaching mastery, I was not in partnership yet in a deep way with Peter. And I’ve taught thousands and thousands and thousands of women in mastery.

And I see so many women, like my grads that I’ll run into, like I was in Miami last couple of weeks ago, and I had coffee with a couple of them here and there. And that’s where they’re stuck, is on the threshold of that.

Yep. Whereas the women who are in my programs now, they, because I’ve got the surrender in my body now, they are able, you know, it’s weird thing how teaching works. It doesn’t matter what the fuck we say.

It’s a matter of like what we hold. What we’re transmitting. Yeah, it’s almost like I could just sit there and women will get, oh, that bitch knows how to give it up. And her body can feel it. And her body is just going click, click, click, click, click.

Okay, that’s what it feels like. That’s what it feels like, that’s what it feels like. You know, my orgasm training, for example, way back at Morehouse days, how’d they teach me? I would be in a room and there’s always three teachers, two women and a man, because it was central training.

And you know, somebody was gonna be naked from the waist down, somebody was gonna get their pussy stroke. So it would start with a teacher, the certified man would stroke. This is a practice called extended massive orgasm and he would stroke her clit.

would watch and then they would teach me how to watch. They’d be like, can you feel that anywhere? I’d be like, maybe I feel it a little bit in my cheeks, my cheeks feel a little bit hot, but not really in my pussy.

Then gradually, if I rested a hand on her leg, then I could start feeling that feeling in my body. So I learned through being in the presence of women who held that ability to surrender their bodies in that way, and then eventually, in that same session, I would have my turn at the practice of being stroked, and then my body would have gotten a whole download from that teacher, and then they would be there to encourage me.

It’s really beautiful the way they teach, and it’s the same thing. I almost feel bad that the women who only got as far as the School of Women in the Arts mastery program, that I haven’t been able to give them.

I got now. But that’s why I’m doing this new program in the fall, because it’s going to include how to really receive love. Yeah. Otherwise, you’re creating pleasure for the sake of pleasure. Which is a bad thing.

No, it isn’t. It’s a great first step, but it’s not the same thing as pleasure as a catalyst to surrender into love. Yes. Right. Those are two different areas. Yeah. And I think there’s another thing that women do now.

Maybe you’ll tell me your feedback on this. I find that in this patriarchal world’s culture, so many of us have had to plug in our big, gigantic cocks to make our way in the world. Oh, yeah. For sure.

And my cock is so huge, Sean. It can feel like hanging out the door of this studio is so massive. And wielding that thing around, what kind of guy is going to be attracted to a woman with a monster cock?

Which is a beautiful thing to have. That’s a great way of putting things. I try to say the skills that made you successful in business are not the skills that are going to work in relationship, but Mama Gina just gets right to the fucking point.

The cock’s bigger than his. Yeah, totally. Totally. And I was kind of proud of it. My daughter and I would just always laugh because I was a single mom raising her. And by the way, every single time that you speak of your daughter and her passing, I just go, I can’t even imagine.

They’re about the same age. That is right. That is right. That would have been 28. That’s right. So just the fact that you’re sitting here with me is really very fucking impressive because I think I would have wandered off a cliff.

Almost did a few times. Okay. All right. So my kid, she’ll be like, like if we’re in a hotel or something because she lives in London and somebody is not giving us the right room, and she sees I’m having a little bit of an issue.

She’ll whisper to me, your cock is so much bigger than his. You got this. So we can joke about it. But it is also something that, let’s say, I had to learn how to unhook that highly developed part of me so that I could open my heart.

To my partner and to not just receive his love because he’s so unbelievably generous, but to give, to be able to love him in all that he is and all that he isn’t. I’m still doing my best to figure it out.

Yeah. I think that’s obviously everybody’s challenge is, how do we give love to the people we love when they’re not lovable? Right? They’re so often that level. Yeah, exactly. Don’t you notice that? Don’t they know?

But I think that’s really the deep spiritual practice. Okay, I just have a technical question for you, which is, so I’m a big fan of heart energy. I think that the heart is the driving force of the energetic body and the auric body, portal to changes all the things, right?

But I’m curious how it works, and I’ve often heard this idea that a woman’s heart has to open before her pussy opens and da-da-da-da, but it seems to me that what you’ve taught and learned is that, no, no, you can actually open your pussy and then your heart.

Is that the way that you would describe it? I think for me, it’s pussy first, foremost, always. It’s so empowering. Yeah. I mean, you know what I mean? Because it’s also like teaching people to activate their hearts, that’s my job, right?

I also think, this is my belief, that you are better at love than I am. I think men just love more. You just fucking do. We love a lot. Certainly, yeah. You love more than us, because we’re always angling, we’re always hustling.

We’re always like, is he hotter than him? Oh, shit, would I have done better with him than him? Yeah. Oh, and wait a minute. Okay, I got the kid in one arm. I’m starting the pot. We’re expecting 20 people for dinner, plus my husband, you know, or like it’s just we, the way we think, the way we hold the world is so differently.

You are of single purpose, you are devotion, you are love, and I’m desire. And desire is a wild creature that inhabits me. It’s not my fault, it’s desire. Well, you’re right. I mean, desire is a wild creature.

So I’m curious how you hold desire. I’ll give you my framework, which is that desire itself, when held, and when I say held, means experienced in the body. a state, like desirous of, you know, she who must be ravished into dust is, is a desirous state.

Oh, can we just stop and do that to me right now? So, so where we get fucked up is in the way that we think art. So if we just stay in the state of desire, man or woman, right? That becomes magnetic.

Like a man who’s in desire of you, but is not graspy. He’s just in it. He’s breathing it. He’s like, he’s looking at you. He’s waiting for you to come to him because he’s magnetic. That, that is a beautiful practice.

It’s magnetic where we get fucked up is where we start to like think how our desire needs to be fulfilled. I’m curious how you hold desire as a practice. Okay. Wait a minute. You’re talking about like when a man is holding desire?

Women too. No, when a woman is in desire, like her desire to be fucked open to God. Ravished into dust, right? And she is just- Oh, just say it again and again. Every cell of her body is in that desire.

She’s kind of like swollen with that. Her whole body is a pussy swollen with that desire. That is fucking magnetic. Yes. That is fucking magnetic. When I see women and men start to say, well, it has to be, he has to fuck me this way for me to stay this way, or he has to give me this for me to stay this way.

That’s where we get fucked up. Or another place we get fucked up is, I’m too scared, it won’t happen. I have to shut it down. Oh, yeah. Or I just know, or she’ll never, I just know, you know, where we retract, where we don’t risk, where we don’t keep fueling the desire with our radiance or our turn on, where we contract or retract in fear.

Or, like you’re talking about, our ego says, it has to be this way. Yeah. He has to make $350,000 a year. He has to own his own home. He has to have to pay for his Lexus in cash and then, and not ever have been married before and no children and, you know, then- And then fuck me to go.

And then fuck me to go. Okay, I’d love to get your take on what I see to be the biggest issue in those moments of, how do I surrender, right? And it is what I hear from women a lot, but men are saying the same thing.

It just shows up differently. For women, what I see is in practices, they will, at some moment, something will happen where they’ll either open too much or too fast or he’ll do something that makes him a little less trustable and then the safety issue comes up, right?

Of like, no, I can’t keep opening because it’s not safe. The way it shows up for men is that they’re afraid they won’t be doing it right. Which then again, makes them not feel safe, that they’re going to be criticized or rejected or abandoned.

So to me, this- idea of how do we create safety in these practices in such a way that it’s not dependent on someone else, right? It’s not like your turn on isn’t dependent on somebody else’s turn on.

People can get that, but as soon as you add the word safety to it, there’s all this charge. So I’m curious how you address that or think about that. It’s such an interesting question, because in this patriarchal culture, women, it’s like one out of four women is going to be raped in her lifetime and how many more women have been experienced domestic violence or verbal abuse.

The statistics are shocking and dreadful. So you’re working with a woman who’s probably holding even ancestral chains of pain in her body that are showing up. not just our classes, but in the world. A woman sitting next to me on the subway, and she’s sitting there super defensive and clutching her purse because she’s had experiences that had taught her to do that.

It’s a question of, and this is why I go back to Pussy again and again and again, and again and again and again and again and again and again. Because what happens is when a woman is in a situation where she’s not safe, what she does is she cuts her relationship between herself and her own erotic aliveness.

Because she’s like, oh no. How do we determine not safe, right? Like see, because what I see again is that there’s a lot of, a lot of what is safe in the moment is not, the lack of safety in the moment is connected to a past experience like we were just talking about.

Which is legit, women have legit experiences of being wronged and hurt and raped and made properly. So all of that is absolutely true. And yet, love is happening in the moment. And yet, here we are, love is happening in the moment.

So how does she reconnect to her pussy in the moment so that I imagine safety will be self-generated? You mean like when she’s in a practice in your class? In practice, making love, walking in the front door of her home, you know what I mean?

Like because, let’s face it, like the safety that you might not feel in a practice is probably gonna be the same safety you’re not gonna feel in your relationship. It’s gonna be the same shit. And that’s where I teach women, we have to take responsibility.

How do you take responsibility for the pain or the hurt or the suffering or the abuse patterning that you’ve experienced to this moment? Yeah, you had no choice about that. But from here forward, it has to.

to be where she, once her pussy is activated, turned on, alive, is her job to be peep in that light lit. This little light of mine, I’m going to let it, she has to let it shine and it becomes her responsibility to feel, wait a minute, I can feel my light dimming.

That’s my light. It’s dimming. It doesn’t necessarily have to do with anything that’s happening out there or does it? Then she checks, wait a minute, that’s just a man on the bus looking at me. That’s nothing, no wrong there.

That’s just a partner in an exercise with me. That’s just Peter opening the front door as he comes home and I’m in a mood. Then it becomes my responsibility to be like, how am I in relationship to that turn on?

do I want to be turned off or do I want to address that I’m turned off? So many of my practices at the School of Women and the Arts are about how do you stay in connection with your radiance at all times as if the world depends on it, because John, I believe it does.

I do too. I think that we owe our radiance to ourselves because like when you are in touch with your pussy, you’re in touch with your intuition, you can see forwards and backwards in time, you know who you are as a woman, you’re willing to put boundaries up, you’re willing to put boundaries down, you are in control of that relationship with your turn on.

There’s practices, for example, I have a communication practice where a woman can call another sister and dump all of her charge into a safe container, whatever that is. He reminded me of this and that happened then, and I got triggered and then she dumps it, and then she can go back to the present moment.

Or my favorite practice is a practice that I teach called swamping, which is an embodied practice where life triggers us, and one life triggers us which is, and this is one of my daily practices, I always spring clean, I always swamp every day.

Swamping, you just get to blow the lid off of the rage that you might feel when you open the newspaper or listen to the news and see what’s happening in the world right now. We need to do something because if we keep that charge of rage in our body, we’ll dim our radiance and dim our turn on, or our grief, we have to be able to embody and experience that grief, or it will overtake us and push us into a depressed state rather than a radiant state.

I have so many practices in my work that allow a woman, and these practices are great for men too. the women who work with me, teach them to their families because you want to be able to return to Home Plate.

And Home Plate isn’t shut down. Home Plate is alive and connected to that erotic, shocky, beautiful truth that pulses through everything. Well, but isn’t that erotic too? Like the grief is erotic. Oh, so much.

The grief is erotic. The rage is erotic. Yes. It’s all erotic if it’s fully owned and flowing through the system. So yeah, I teach men, I kind of do. I’m a big fan of oceano dynamic meditation eventually, but I teach men a version of that.

A version of that is so great. It’s so, so helpful for all of us because most of us got shut down and repressed, not expanded. I mean, a human being has like the emotional range of 88 keys of the piano, and you can play a symphony, but we don’t.

We’d like, you know, how are you, John, how are you? What are you supposed to say? That’s what we get taught and we’re never fine. We are something, but we are never fine. I never remember, I don’t even know what fine feels like.

Maybe it doesn’t feel like anything. Yeah, I’m more focused on free. Free, it’s good, but free would be like that whole range. Yeah, yeah. Free, free, free, you know, I practice as much as I practice so that I feel free.

Free to love, free to express, free to just be free to feel the infinite, free to receive the bounty of the moment, free to, you know, it’s an ongoing struggle. So I think if you look at safety as not something that someone else is supposed to provide for you, but something that you can create for yourself by really piping into your pussy power and really trusting your intuition.

I use it all the time. Like I live in New York city. I just went to a Broadway show. It’s, uh, I know that I went for out for a drink with a friend. It’s around midnight. Uh, do I, what’s my intuition?

Do I jump on the subway? Yeah, I’m going to be cool on the subway tonight. Or do I take a cap? I’ll feel one or the other. And when I trust that intuition, then I’m safe. I love that because the way I’ve been thinking about this is that there’s a, you know, there’s a frequency of the habit of inherited fear, right?

Like there’s a frequency. And that, that, you know, pussy power, heart power, cock power, uh, love itself is a much deeper, higher, more powerful frequency. And so safety to me is like, all right, I’m responsible.

Of course I have to be aware of my environment. And of course, but, but I, I have to be responsible men too, to raise my vibration to a place where I’m plugged into something that is way more potent than my past, way more potent.

You know, you mentioned the patriarchy and I, this has been a little hair up my butt for the last few months. Those are annoying. I know. I never had one. I can only imagine. Yeah, it’s painful. And I’ve been waiting to talk about it.

But I think we don’t acknowledge what men went through. For sure. We do not. And I just think, like, I mean, when you say the patriarchy… The patriarchy sucks for men. It’s horrible. It was horrible.

It’s a prison for both of us. It was fucked up. And so men were enslaved, taken from their families, taught to kill. You know, I think about the story of the Berserker, you know, how men were, like, filled with demons to go out on the battlefield.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, men were fucked in the patriarchy, except for the very top level of them. So men were fucked, too, by the patriarchy. They were. Not all men are the patriarchy. They’re fucked right now by the patriarchy.

Absolutely. Like, the archetypes of what a man is supposed to be, like… Yeah, we could go on and on and on. I’m sure I’ll get a bunch of shit for this. I think I just tweezed the hair out of your foot.

Thank you. Thank you for helping me. Because it sucks for both of us. But honestly, it’s not that long ago. It’s only a few thousand years ago that we’re in partnership religions. We’re both God and goddess, we’re worshipped and honored.

So we can pull the roots for ourselves from that time. We don’t have to find ourselves planted so deeply inside of this culture right now. Yeah. I think that you’re probably seeing this as well and I’m seeing it, that the consciousness is, at least on the fringes, which is where all change starts, is starting to elevate.

It’s more connection to nature, more return to the spiritual practice of God and goddess and equal expression. All those things are starting to come back. How can we teach people to be more devotional?

How can we get better at teaching people? I know you mentioned it earlier about being devotional to men, that men want to love you. How do you look at that? How do we create more devotion in the world?

For me, it was learning to surrender. Instead of love with my ego, it has to be like this, it has to be like this, it has to be like that. But to feel safe enough inside my body, that in my particular storyline, it was learning to love Peter exactly as he was, and open my heart to love the little boy in him, the man in him.

When I reconnected with him, because we broke up for two years, honestly, do you know what really helped me the most? MDMA really helped me because I couldn’t feel my heart open because I’d had that abuse patterning.

I couldn’t feel my heart open, but once I did, I was like, oh, I got this. It doesn’t go away. It’s not like once the drug wears off, you are able- Yeah, there’s a neuroplasticity for a few weeks afterwards.

And has stuck with me because now I know what it feels like to expand, which I didn’t have in my body like me and my kooky learning my little ballet steps from my dance teacher. I just had to practice over and over and over.

That medicine opened me and now it’s become my practice of when I see him. How can I prepare myself to be open, to be connected to my turn on, to receive him, to soften, to be able to- expand my heart.

That has been such a worthy journey because that part of my feminine wasn’t available when I was swinging my cock around the world as the legend that I am. Yeah. And a thing I always like to say to people is that devotion is a practice.

It’s a skill, actually. It’s an art, probably the better word, right? And all great arts need to be practiced and need to be embodied and need to be nourished and need to be protected and prioritized.

Yeah. And so this idea of devotion being dependent on what somebody else is doing is the thing I see so much in the world. It breaks my heart. I see it all the time where somebody else has to be doing something else for me to be in devotion to them.

And like you were saying in any partnership, you’re going to see the worst and the best. If you’re in any relationship that’s over a year, you’re going to see their worst and their best and everything in between.

So are you just going to be devotional when they’re their best? Are you going to be devotional to the whole human? It’s hard though, John. It’s really hard. It is. It’s not as spiritual practice. And I think that’s probably true.

Being in a relational field where love is devotion to love is more important than devotion to self, that’s a tough one. That’s a metaphor. Meaning a minefield. You’re stepping into a minefield and you don’t know where you’re going to blow up at any given time or what’s going to blow at any given time.

Yeah. And this will be my parting words here and you can get yours, but we’re not going to be safe in the world. We’re never going to be safe. truly safe. We’re never going to be safe. I mean, we can be safe in a moment, right?

But this idea that we’re going to hit this sort of plateau where everything is protected and everything is perfect and the markets never move and my partner’s always great. And then there’s no danger outside and there’s no danger of climate explosion.

You know what I mean? There’s no whatever, no COVID, right? It’s just, it’s impossible. And so this predilection we have to chase safety is something I think that, like you said, kills love. I think it’s the opposite.

It’s not chase safety, but it’s to trust life. This is just trust life that no matter what the fuck is happening, it is for you in some mysterious, amazing way because every single breath is a gift that we can’t possibly repay is just a gift.

And so then it just becomes a matter of being grateful and safety. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Be grateful, fuck safety. Be grateful, fuck safety. I love it. Thank you, Regina. Thank you, Ray. Oh, it’s so nice to have you here.

Thanks for such a beautiful conversation. All right, that’s it. We’ll see you next time on the Embodied Relationship Experience.