The Embodied Relationship Experience – EP 29

01:00:00.000 — 01:00:26.920 · Speaker 1
A classic relationship dynamic between a man and a woman as a woman is very upset and a man has no clue how to respond. And the real opportunity is that she is just energy that wants to be felt and met and penetrated. And there’s actually opportunity for really hot sex and intimacy and juice. But most men have been conditioned to go like, fuck that, I’m shutting down.

01:00:30.560 — 01:02:05.060 · Speaker 1
Hello. Welcome back to the Embodied Relationship Experience Podcast. My name is John Wineland. I am here with my good friend Alan McGrath Isbell. And today we’re going to talk about bringing your practice home. And we’re going to get into hopefully into the nitty gritty of how to take your practices off the mat.

And you know, when I say practice, I’m talking about everything, every kind of relational and sexual practice, you know. Maybe we won’t get so deep into the weeds, but I think I want to give a really varied range of the kinds of practice that you can bring home, because, you know, those people that come to my workshops and Alan’s workshops, you know, we spend a weekend teaching them, you know, skills and practices and ways of being.

And often the trick is how do you bring it home? So I just want to introduce Alan. Alan is a longtime student of mine. Now become a dear friend of mine. He’s also going to be co-teaching with me in this next year’s teacher training. So Alan has a set of beautiful offerings that he makes to the world as well. He teaches his own workshops.

Uh, he’s in Boulder, based in Boulder now, and I’m just really happy to have you. Thanks, man. Yeah, man, it’s good to be here. Yeah. So when I, when I bring up that topic, like, what’s the first thing that comes to you? Like, what do you think? Like, oh, okay. Like, this is I get a smile on my face thinking of all the subtle, funny, juicy ways that we can actually bring this to our life, to our relationship.

Yeah. Um, you know, I think of all the ways that I’ve failed, you know,

01:02:06.740 — 01:02:32.460 · Speaker 1
and, and the times that I succeed, you know, and, um. Yeah. Yeah, it’s a great time. Give me, give me, give me a couple failures. Like what? What stands out for you? Oh, I see an epic fail. I failed last night. Uh, I asked a question when I wasn’t available for the answer. Ah, yeah. Yeah, that’s a that’s a common man mistake.

Yes. On my way to do my evening practice. Yeah. And just that, like, little

01:02:33.940 — 01:03:39.110 · Speaker 1
shred of a nice guy or whatever it was, you know, that’s. What were you doing? Or. You know, I think that’s what I said. It wasn’t just, uh. What what were you doing? Kind of. This is what I was doing. Answering was this is a massive, you know, experience that I was just having and all these insights and about five seconds in, she could tell it was not available for it, despite my.

Yeah. All your questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My question. Your feigned curiosity. Yes. And then? And then there’s the practice, you know. Then how do you how do you come back to love? That’s. That to me, is the ultimate practice. So. So you’re in this. You’re you asked the question. Do you realize there’s five minutes in that you’re really not five seconds, five seconds, five seconds.

You’re really not present with her? Yeah, right. She gets. She gets upset. She’s like, oh, I just had this big experience. You’re not even fucking with me like blah blah blah. And then, yeah. So take us through how you come back from that epic fail. So first I stumbled a little bit because I was still in my failure moment, you know, failure nervous system.

And then I took a moment, took a breath and then owned what I did. Mhm. I said

01:03:40.150 — 01:04:18.440 · Speaker 1
I shouldn’t have asked you that question. I really was not available for the answer. And I’m sorry. You know, and what I love most about my partner is that she’s, she’s always available to return to love. It might take a little while. usually not that long ago. Yeah. And so, you know, two minutes later, you guys were good, you know?

Yeah. Did you offer her a time when you would be ready to hear about her being experience? Okay, good. But I was this morning. Okay. That would have been good, though. Yeah, that would have been good. Um, yeah, after I finished my practice, my love, you know, I’ll come back. We sit down, we’ll sit by the fire, and you can tell me about your big experience.

Yeah. I thought she was just on the computer, you know?

01:04:20.120 — 01:06:15.570 · Speaker 1
So. Yeah. So, I mean, when we talk about practice, I guess I’d love to hear, like, the range of practice that you bring into your relationship. I think that would. I think that would be really cool for people. I think people don’t even really know what’s possible from, you know, relationship structures for relationship check ins to repair practice to just, you know, basic sort of intimacy practice to, like you said earlier, about creating juiciness to like straight up, you know, sexual polarity practice like what’s what’s the range for you?

You know, I’ll start off by saying there are times in our relationship where we have really consistent practices that we do, and there are times where we just go with what’s alive. Like we don’t have some kind of like, okay, we’re going to sit down and do this. We just meet the moment. Yeah. And because we have both spent a lot of time doing practices, yeah, we can call upon that litany of experience that we’ve been trained in to meet the moment.

Yeah. So that could look like oh, right. I’ve, I’ve been trained that like when I take responsibility for what I, for what I’ve done, it relaxes the nervous system of my woman. You know, we’re a feminine being. Yeah. And so I can just employ that in the moment. Now, there have been times where, you know, every day we’re sitting in front of each other, like, beginning with eye gazing, and then we have an hour to just explore what comes up.

Right. And there are times where anything’s on the table in that hour. There’s times where we won’t touch. And like, that’s the that’s the practice. It’s just like being in front of each other and, you know, be as free and connected as we can be. Um, using the skills that we’ve learned, eye contact, breath.

You know, if I’m taking the masculine pole, really staying more in my awareness than in my sensation, you know, my, the flow that wants to occur in my body and her being all flow. Yeah. All expression. All.

01:06:15.810 — 01:06:28.650 · Speaker 2
So it’s more just like an emergent moment, you know, arising right in both of you as you take one pole and she takes the other. Exactly right. Rather than saying, you know, we’re going to be doing this and we’re going to move into this. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

01:06:28.690 — 01:07:04.620 · Speaker 1
It’s really not my style. Yeah. You know, I don’t either. Yeah. I like to just see what happens. And, you know, every single there was a period of time we were doing that for maybe every day, like six months, something like that. And every single one was so different. You know, there’s there’s tears, there’s ecstasy, there’s frustration, There’s.

There’s anger, there’s love, there’s peace. That’s just. Every day was so different. I like that. I like just kind of meeting the moment and drawing upon years of practice to find out how to meet it.

01:07:04.660 — 01:07:12.420 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. It’s like. It’s like doing spontaneous art. Yes. Right. Exactly. When you’ve been trained as an artist to do something right, you know. Yeah.

01:07:12.460 — 01:07:36.340 · Speaker 1
Like when she was on her computer last night, I happened to see her as I walked by. I went into her office, kind of snuck in and just worshiped her feet for 30s because they were kind of sticking out from underneath the desk. And I just, like, hmm, just dawned upon me to worship her feet for 30s, you know, and then move along.

So that moment was a success. Yeah. Five minutes later, I failed, you know.

01:07:37.780 — 01:08:11.630 · Speaker 2
Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah. So yes, yes. David says failure as the masculine way. Yeah. And so when you’re in that sort of let’s unpack the spontaneous, you know, emergent moment practices. Right. But it’s interesting because you guys make an agreement. Hey, we’re going to meet at 10 a.m. or whatever it is, and we’re going to do.

We’re going to take 30 minutes just sitting on this office in front of each other and breathing. And we’re just going to let whatever happens happen. Yeah. Right. So that’s the structure of the practice. Yeah. And then when you’re in the practice, what are some of the things that you’re doing to like kind of evoke depth in that moment.

01:08:11.670 — 01:08:34.110 · Speaker 1
Well first of all I’d be I would practice beforehand, you know, so I would sit like really just be in my own meditation practice just to get into that, that part of myself. Right. Because if I just walked in from work or, you know, eating breakfast, I wouldn’t have the same gravitas. Yeah. As if I had spent a little bit of time preparing.

So that’s what it would look like is, you know, 15.

01:08:34.150 — 01:08:35.150 · Speaker 2
Much time to 15, 20.

01:08:35.150 — 01:08:45.640 · Speaker 1
Minutes. 15, 20 minutes. I would stay, I’d be in our practice space and stay there and be there. And then she would come in at the agreed upon time usually, know.

01:08:47.000 — 01:09:11.080 · Speaker 1
Um. And we would. There’d be no words. Mhm. She’d come. She would. You know, depending on how she was feeling. Slowly or quickly you know, maybe socially move towards her cushion. Mhm. Um and then usually it would just start with uh for, for me, you know, I’m just now instead of having all my awareness on

01:09:12.240 — 01:09:37.840 · Speaker 1
my own experience, I’m now extending it to include her. Mhm. So now instead of because the way that I’ve been trained is like this body is the feminine. Right. This whole all my thoughts, my emotions sensations, that’s the feminine. And so when I’m in my own practice I’m aware of those things without getting lost in them.

Mhm. When my woman sits in front of me now she is included in that.

01:09:37.840 — 01:09:39.520 · Speaker 2
Right. She’s part of experience.

01:09:39.520 — 01:10:46.260 · Speaker 1
She’s part of the experience. And so, so I would bring that same level of. Sort of relaxed economist’s awareness to her and just feel, you know, like starting with her, you know, through eyes and then starting to connecting with her breath and just feel it. How is the feminine in her today? How is what’s the texture of her heart like?

What’s the tension in her belly like? What’s alive in her? How is she without judgment or trying to change her and just meeting her just as she is, just as I was doing for my own body mind, you know, ten minutes before. Slowly, as I do that every time she starts to open, I don’t know, it’s like it’s like a sun and a flower.

Like when the sun comes, the flower starts to do something. It might take a little time, right? You know, but eventually it will start to open and shift. And so that would just begin to occur. And in my experience, when the feminine opens when? When women open, all kinds of stuff comes up.

01:10:46.500 — 01:10:47.940 · Speaker 2
Right? Right. Right.

01:10:47.980 — 01:11:32.060 · Speaker 1
And so you just it’s like a mixed bag of human experience. And, you know, I could. All of a sudden there could be like a, like a, I don’t know, like an image of, like a geyser. You know, like it’s it’s quiet. And then all of a sudden it just goes off. Like in Yellowstone, you know, like those geysers out there, like, all of a sudden a geyser of grief might come up, you know.

And so my practice in that moment would be to, like, not make up stories. Why is she feeling this way? You know, like the sun is shining, everything’s fine or there’s no need for, you know, relaxing and all that. Just to be with it as, as it arises. And then that might become pleasure. It might become frustration.

It might become anything. And so in those.

01:11:32.220 — 01:11:35.620 · Speaker 2
Well, you’re just feeling you just sort of placing your life.

01:11:35.980 — 01:11:36.540 · Speaker 1
In stillness.

01:11:36.580 — 01:11:36.820 · Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:11:36.820 — 01:12:47.080 · Speaker 1
Yeah. I was saying stillness. I’m just literally just aware of her grief arising, her pleasure arising, whatever. And then like once, you know. Maybe I don’t know. I’m not keeping track of time, but let’s say 15 minutes in, I start to feel like this grief or this pleasure or this frustration needs to be met in some way.

So and I’m not thinking about it. It’s just a feeling, you know, it’s like, okay, you know, she’s been met by my, let’s say, like energy or my awareness. Now it’s time to kind of meet her with a little bit more. And again, this is totally dependent on the moment. Yeah. There was times where she didn’t do anything, just sat there and stillness, you know, and it was ecstatic.

Right. Um, but most times there’d be some part of me that would feel like, okay, like just this spontaneous urge to meet that from that place of depth and stillness. Right. And, you know, that would become anything like us tussling, you know, tying her up, grabbing a blanket and wrapping her in it and, you know, and just like anything might occur, but it’s rooted in that same place of, like, deep awareness.

01:12:47.080 — 01:12:55.040 · Speaker 2
You’re not you’re not strategizing no strategy. You’re just receiving inspiration from consciousness and love. Yeah, right. Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

01:12:55.080 — 01:13:32.560 · Speaker 1
And and that will just take an arc, you know, and again anything might occur in that. But we just trust each other and trust the process. And sometimes words might come if they’re, you know, some crunchy thing arises in her that we need to work out, but very rarely. Mostly we work it out with our breath, our bodies and our, you know, sound together and.

Right. Um, pleasure opening anything through pleasure. And and then they would, you know, come to a conclusion and then we would take a few moments back where we started. Beau. She would leave.

01:13:32.720 — 01:13:34.040 · Speaker 2
Mhm. And get on with your day.

01:13:34.080 — 01:13:34.920 · Speaker 1
I would stay there for a little.

01:13:34.920 — 01:13:35.200 · Speaker 2
While.

01:13:35.400 — 01:13:38.090 · Speaker 1
Soaking it all in and then move on with the day.

01:13:38.130 — 01:16:34.190 · Speaker 2
Yeah, that’s that’s beautiful. I think there’s a there’s so many different possibilities of practice. One is sort of a planned practice like the one you’re talking about. It’s more of a daily ritual. Um, and then the other is more of a temple night kind of thing. Right. And that’s something that I do with my partner.

And we we will have, you know, well, usually once a week maybe we’ll have like a, we’ll say, okay, like at 6 p.m., we start a temple night, two candles by the fire and, um, and we’re, you know, sitting on sofas just like you’re talking about. And I will be in there meditating and just kind of breathing and doing my thing, and she will get adorned.

Right. And and then she will walk in usually in this like she has this, like, amazing collection of robes. Nice. So there’s always like a different robe anyway. So, so but she, she really like, puts the energy into it. And so the temple night is another sort of a more elaborate way to, you know, to talk about what you do.

And then it’s the same kind of concept like, you know, bringing your best practice to the moment, letting the moment emerge rather than having some strategy. We’re going to do this, we’re going to do that. Mhm. Um, what I’ve actually been doing recently is practicing like what’s it like to give consciousness to her.

Mhm. Right. So I’m, I’m, I’m sitting there and I’m, I’m actually connecting to consciousness and I’m feeling consciousness and then I, I start to imagine that I can be sort of a transmitter of it. We did this in just a little bit. Right, right. And you know what? What would it be like for me to be able to transmit through my hands like the light of consciousness?

And so I’m just kind of like I’m letting it empty and and I’ll do that for a little bit where I’ll use my hands or I’ll use my belly or my eyes, and I’ll just kind of pour consciousness into her and try to stay as free of thought as I can, which, you know, thought thoughts come and then I’m like, okay, go back to consciousness.

And, um, wow, she looks so beautiful. whatever it is. And and as I’m doing that, I start to feel like. I start to feel her like you’re talking about. And what I notice is that, yes, when she receives consciousness, which I guess in your analogies. Sunlight, right? Right. Yeah. Um, awareness. Consciousness.

But but when she receives it, I can feel that energy just starts to move. Yeah. Like, she sort of naturally takes the pole of energy. Yeah. And then things start to move. She might shudder. She might make a sound. She might start to move her body. And we’ll just kind of get into this dance of consciousness and energy moving, which is, you know, very which is basically the original sort of deity yoga practice, tantric yoga practice.

And we’ll see where we go. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And, you know, sometimes it does, like, move into erotic play and sometimes it does move into conversation. Right? Sometimes it does move into, you know, just kind of like being in that natural flow of energy and consciousness and seeing what happens. But it’s always different.

01:16:34.190 — 01:16:34.990 · Speaker 1
It’s always different.

01:16:34.990 — 01:17:44.920 · Speaker 2
It’s always different. And and I think that that’s one of the things, you know, is we’re trying to like, just give people some opportunity to think about what they can be doing at home with practice. Huh. Um, you know, these are some ideas. Now, we practice these in workshops first, right? I mean, I guess you can’t try this at home, but but, you know, it’s it’s it’s one of those things that we practice in workshops.

First Allen teaches at I teach it and then you kind of play with it at home. Yeah. And so I’m curious like so we have, we have sort of the daily structured ritual practice. We have the temple night practice. Um, like what else, what other kinds of I mean, you mentioned something. I think that’s kind of interesting, which is like I in my language, I would call this, you know, like, how do you feed the field of love in the daily life experience, right?

Like, so you’re living your life. She’s working. You’re working. You guys are both home. You both work at home, right? It’s not uncommon. Yeah. You know, there’s this kind of like, you know, you’ve got life in the way, but you also love each other. And it can just. It can. You know, the field of love is there.

And then during the course of the day, how do you. What are some. I mean, you mentioned touching her feet or worshiping her feet, but what are some other ways that you feed the field of love?

01:17:44.960 — 01:19:57.500 · Speaker 1
First of all, I think you have to pay attention to it. I think most people are totally on attuned to the quality of what you call the field of love, or like the quality of the connection between each other. So they just get used to being in this kind of, you know, depolarized, neutralized friend zone thing.

And they don’t recognize like, oh, when I, you know, when I walk into the house and don’t take a moment to be with her, the field of love kind of collapses, you know. So then they just participate in that and tolerate that. And then it just becomes this like, yeah, neutralized relationship. And so the first thing is starting to pay attention.

Like, for me, my main practice is like doing things and then noticing the effect. So if I do come into the house and I don’t pay attention to her, I can feel her heart kind of collapse. I can feel like, oh, there’s an impact. And my not taking an intentional moment with her, for example, and then go, okay, is that what I want to create?

Or okay, if I come in and I take a moment and I look her in the eyes and I bring her clothes and say, you know, hello, my love or whatever, she lights up, there’s energy there. I can feel that. Okay. The field of love is now more full. So that’s what I do. I just like, pay attention to what things do. And I fail just as much as I succeed.

Yeah. Um, but it’s it’s really just about getting intentional with how you are with your body around them and their body and noticing, like, okay, when I do this, they respond in this way And like our connection grows and our love grows. Um, so it again, like, I don’t have specific things that I do. I just kind of feel it out in the moment.

And so every day, I mean, one time I, she complained to me, she was like, I wish she would just do the same thing, like more than once. She was speaking sexually and I was like, sorry. I just like, I’m just I just I don’t have a plan, you know? I don’t have a thing that I’m going to do. Yeah, yeah. And, um.

01:19:57.900 — 01:20:02.340 · Speaker 2
I made that’s her way of saying, can you do that thing I really like exactly that one. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

01:20:02.380 — 01:20:07.580 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. And and, you know, I don’t think many women are complaining about that.

01:20:07.620 — 01:20:08.500 · Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly.

01:20:08.500 — 01:20:26.230 · Speaker 1
It’s really because I just, you know, there are certain principles, I think that that we teach people and that we’ve trained in that when you start to actually live, it changes how you approach sex relationship. Yeah. Um, your life and,

01:20:27.550 — 01:20:47.630 · Speaker 1
um, one of. One of those things is like to be totally free of strategy or like, um, you know, goal. Like, if you have that, the feminine in the dynamic will feel it. They’ll feel like you want something from me. Yeah. What is it and.

01:20:47.670 — 01:20:48.910 · Speaker 2
Why, you know.

01:20:48.990 — 01:20:56.270 · Speaker 1
Yeah. And, um, so I try and stay away from that. And instead what I do is I pay attention, like, okay,

01:20:57.750 — 01:21:22.390 · Speaker 1
you know, how is she in this moment? How is the field of love between us? And and how can I serve it? And that might look like just giving her a hug that might look like just gently stroking her spine as we’re standing next to each other, just to bring energy into her spine. Yeah. That might look like jumping her bones while we’re in the living room, you know, and spending an hour making love because we can, you know?

01:21:22.440 — 01:21:27.080 · Speaker 2
Yeah. This is one of the upsides of working together. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

01:21:27.120 — 01:21:52.640 · Speaker 1
From that to like. Okay. If you’re working together from home, how do you create boundaries so that you’re not just bumping into each other? Hey, how’s it going? You know, it’s like 11:00, and you really don’t want to be talking to each other like you are, you know? So to create a polarized relationship that also includes deep intimacy and also includes, you know, deep commitment is an ongoing art.

It takes a lot of skills.

01:21:52.680 — 01:22:04.960 · Speaker 2
And yeah, what you mentioned the sort of the principles of practice. So I think I think that would be kind of cool to unpack. Like what do you what do you consider to be the, you know, basic principles of, of practice in general?

01:22:05.000 — 01:22:15.359 · Speaker 1
Well, it depends on which side you’re talking about. I think from the masculine side there’s one is like the feminine is always changing, you know. And

01:22:16.680 — 01:22:18.080 · Speaker 1
are you okay with that.

01:22:19.320 — 01:22:22.250 · Speaker 1
Can you. So a principle would be like

01:22:23.650 — 01:23:32.740 · Speaker 1
tuning your nervous system to become okay with the feminine change. Because if you want her to always be the same. Both of you will suffer, you know? Um. So learning. I think the big the big way to do that is with the man’s own experience. Like, how can he sit with his own experience and not try and change how he feels, not try to change his sensations?

Meditation is the perfect place to do that. Right? Like, just be aware of your own experience without changing it. Yeah. And then you apply that to your relationship. So that would be one. Another would be learning how to sit in stillness. Right. Like if you can be okay with change, then can you rest in the stillness as that change comes and goes right and learn to?

I mean, maybe another one would be to be a yes or from the masculine side is like, yeah, you’re a yes to whatever is occurring. And these aren’t necessarily practices, but they’re they’re principles that allow you to approach the feminine in a way that says like, okay, I’m going to take this on.

01:23:32.780 — 01:23:33.300 · Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:23:33.340 — 01:24:05.700 · Speaker 1
Another one is like, don’t take things personally. The feminine is not personal. Yeah. It’s just it’s just changing. It’s just this impersonal thing that’s sad and then angry and then dah dah dah. And, um, so if you take it personally, you will suffer. You know, you’ll. Yeah, you’ll start to defend. You’ll start to deny.

You’ll start to. I wasn’t quite like that. And, um, when we can approach our women like that, they’re more free to be who they are. Yeah.

01:24:06.220 — 01:24:06.900 · Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:24:06.940 — 01:24:16.460 · Speaker 1
Which makes the relationship far more interesting and juicy. And, um. And we suffer less. That’s what I’m interested in. It’s like, is suffering to us. Me, too.

01:24:16.500 — 01:24:30.350 · Speaker 2
Yeah, Yeah. I think that the couple other principles that I think are important, which you mentioned, are, you know, really being the emergent moment, right? Um, you know, awareness, deep and wide

01:24:32.190 — 01:25:48.080 · Speaker 2
sensitivity. And when we talk about awareness and practice, we’re talking about being both tethered to consciousness, but also being tethered to experience. Right. So you’re feeling both you know, if you’re practicing with yourself, then you’re feeling both the sensation in your body and the experience in your body, and you’re feeling consciousness.

If you’re if you’re if you’re. So so being able to train your awareness or guide or direct your awareness is one of the, I think, the most important principles of practice. Right. Especially for men. Right. Yeah. For women, it’s about allowing your awareness to to be all feeling and to sort of surrender your awareness to sensation and energy.

Right. So how do I turn off my mind if I’m because I practice in the family, too. Yeah, right. But how do I turn off my mind and just let life force move through me the way that it wants to move through me? Right. But while being witnessed by consciousness. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, you’re right. There’s different summons in the masculine, summons in the feminine.

And, you know, I have to say this all the time. This is not gender specific. This can be we can switch. Um, we just did a beautiful practice a couple of weeks ago where I was absolutely in the feminine, and she was absolutely in the masculine. She loved it. She was like, I had no idea I would love it that much.

01:25:49.520 — 01:26:11.760 · Speaker 2
It felt good to me, too. So it’s just good to it’s good to sort of reverse the poles, just letting you guys know that. And that way everybody gets a little more. Nobody gets kind of stuck. Yeah. Sort of a rigid or defined role. Right. Um, trying to think of any other really good principles of practice. Breath.

Yeah. Breath. Yeah. Like somehow

01:26:13.010 — 01:26:26.130 · Speaker 2
Expanding your breath capacity, whether it’s slow and deep or, you know, deep and rhythmic or, you know, I mean, there’s so many different breaths, right? You know, we probably know 30 or 40 different kinds of breath, right?

01:26:26.170 — 01:26:39.330 · Speaker 1
The very least being aware of it. Yeah. That’s like the base. Yeah. What you do, is it after that? It depends. Yeah. But as long as you’re aware of it, there’s a certain tether to something deeper. Mhm. And that’s enough.

01:26:39.370 — 01:27:44.130 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Well you know it’s interesting I know you’ve read David’s David David’s new books Man of Zero. I’ve read parts of it. Yeah I’ve read it too. And, and you know this is kind of his classic stuff, which is how do you, how can you be with the feminine as a masculine practitioner and be zero? Yeah. Which is his way of saying, you know, consciousness.

Right? Right. Like consciousness. Relaxed. Relaxed consciousness. Yeah. And and, you know, and and I think that a lot of men miss these opportunities because there are multiple opportunities during the day to practice this. Oh, yeah. Any time you approach a feminine being, right? And it could be your child too, you know?

It could be your child. Um, you know, how do I how do I remember consciousness? Because I see men all the time. And I’m curious how you do this. Like I’m sure you forget. Then you remember. I remember, right? But how do you how do you continually sort of stay in your practice, the practice that you have on the mat?

How do you bring that more artfully and thoughtfully into walking through the kitchen, or you know what I mean, or getting into bed or. Yeah.

01:27:44.410 — 01:27:56.690 · Speaker 1
I mean, first is having those moments on my own where I can where I’m intentionally remembering it, I’m steeping in depth, I’m steeping in awareness. And you gotta have those.

01:27:56.730 — 01:28:00.010 · Speaker 2
Just for the people who don’t understand. What do you call steeping in depth.

01:28:00.410 — 01:28:31.740 · Speaker 1
Sitting in stillness? And, um, these days it’s doing certain kinds of practices that that like bring stillness to my body, stillness to my mind, stillness to the energy in my body. Um, but in the past, it could look like anything. It could look like doing breathwork, you know, and then sitting in stillness and feeling the effect, you know, could be doing yoga asana and then sitting in stillness.

It’s just like taking some amount of time to remove as many, uh, distractions as possible.

01:28:31.820 — 01:28:32.260 · Speaker 2
Mm.

01:28:32.460 — 01:29:11.990 · Speaker 1
Usually that would mean closing the eyes, being still on the body and focusing on something. I mean, I started meditating at 16, and, um, the first few times I meditated, I had these crazy experiences, and then I started to try and create them, and I realized, like, okay, they’re going away. That’s not it’s not going to work.

Let me find what actually meditation is about. And it’s really just about putting your awareness on something and keeping it there. Yeah, yeah. And letting it relax into that simplicity. Yeah. So that would be the breath is classic. Yeah. Um, so doing that for a period of time. If if you do that.

01:29:12.030 — 01:29:35.630 · Speaker 2
Just for just remembering to do that. For me, it’s always my d’Antin, right? Like, if I’m, if I’m breathing into my lower abdomen, my perineum, just that part of my body, I’m immediately in the deepest part of my body with breath. Right. If I bring my awareness down there, too. No matter what else is happening, I feel like I’m in some tether to depth.

And that’s a that’s a remembrance that I think a lot of people.

01:29:35.670 — 01:29:36.110 · Speaker 1
Totally.

01:29:36.150 — 01:29:36.990 · Speaker 2
Could use.

01:29:37.310 — 01:30:24.000 · Speaker 1
And it’s like, if you want to be deep, feel the deepest part of your body and then bring your breath there. Yeah, yeah. And the funny thing is, like, women will feel it right away. Yeah. Men might, but usually they’re not as sensitive to that. But if you put a man in front of a woman, then you have him just breathe how he normally does and then have him do what you just said.

The woman will feel it immediately. And if she’s responsive enough, you know the sound will come out. Pleasure will happen. And so it’s, um, one thing that I heard David said recently is like, all this stuff is not prescriptive. We’re not saying, like, you should do this. You need to do this. This is how it should be.

It’s descriptive. It’s if you do this.

01:30:24.040 — 01:30:24.280 · Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:30:24.480 — 01:30:25.400 · Speaker 1
This will occur.

01:30:25.440 — 01:30:26.000 · Speaker 2
You know.

01:30:26.080 — 01:30:34.680 · Speaker 1
So if you take time to sit in stillness or, you know, remember your remember depth and however that’s creating, maybe it’s reading poetry and that as you remember.

01:30:34.800 — 01:31:19.970 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Because there’s you can also go deep into your heart. Yeah I think of it in three, three, three ways. Right. You’ve got the most the deepest part of your body, which for a man is kind of the internal where, where the penis starts in the body, that it’s where the cervix is for a woman. Right. Right. And and to remember that and breathe into that.

Then there’s the heart. And how you know the heart. You can go so deep into the heart. I like to think of it. I like to think of the root of the heart as the deepest part of the heart. And then there’s the center of the mind where the pineal gland is. And you know, if you can lock all those three in and just keep coming back to those even in.

And we’ll transition to this in a minute. But even in difficult conversations, especially in difficult conversations, it’s going to be she’ll feel that as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:31:19.970 — 01:31:46.610 · Speaker 1
A woman will always feel the state of your nervous system as a man. Yeah, probably more than you are. So the reason why it’s important for me to remember my adapter, to take time to do that is so that I’m paying attention to the state of my nervous system. The state of my body mind. Otherwise, I’ll just be floating through life, you know, from like one, you know, objective to the next.

Yeah. Trying to find something.

01:31:46.650 — 01:31:47.090 · Speaker 2
Right?

01:31:47.370 — 01:31:50.010 · Speaker 1
Right. And she can feel that. And, you know.

01:31:50.370 — 01:31:52.010 · Speaker 2
We’re reacting to something, right?

01:31:52.050 — 01:31:52.570 · Speaker 1
Oh, yeah.

01:31:52.610 — 01:31:52.930 · Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:31:52.970 — 01:32:33.219 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. More likely reacting to something. So I do that. I take time during my day to, to do that. And then really what I do is I, I try and bring that, you know, like, literally as I step off the mound, like I walk down the hallway as that I try and drink my water as that I try and, you know, as I work with people or coach or facilitate, like, I’m, I’m coming from that place, I’m trying to bring that to life.

And then as I move through my day with her, I stay connected to it as much as I can, and I act spontaneously. That’s really it. I

01:32:34.300 — 01:32:38.660 · Speaker 1
like, and that’s where the magic is. Yeah, it’s not in. Okay, I’m gonna tickle her.

01:32:38.660 — 01:32:39.820 · Speaker 2
And do this. Yeah.

01:32:40.140 — 01:32:41.220 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. You.

01:32:42.260 — 01:32:50.900 · Speaker 1
From depth, everything is possible. Anything is possible. And all the answers are right there because they’re spontaneous and.

01:32:50.940 — 01:33:54.069 · Speaker 2
Well. But I think it’s important to let people know, like, the capacity that you and I have to do this right. And this is something that I’ve always, you know, had to, like, help people with who know David’s work. right? It’s because David’s giving you these experiences from his 50 years of practice, right?

Of not only meditation practice and yoga practice, tai chi practice and sexual practice and all that stuff. Right. So there are hours and hours and hours and hours and hours on the mat that make it possible when you’re at home having spontaneous, emergent moments. Right. You’ve got this. Well, your body knows what to do.

So this is our pitch for workshops. Yeah. Exactly. Right. Like like these are skills. Yes. Right. To be able to, like, stay with the feminine and feel the center part of your body and feel depth and find stillness while the feminine is being the feminine. Right. Like that stuff you train for? It’s got to be trained.

Yeah, yeah. Because we’re sitting here making it sound kind of easy and natural and like, oh, yeah, this is what you do. Yeah. You know, you just remember you’re Don Chen and she’s yelling at you, right? He’s like

01:33:55.070 — 01:34:05.680 · Speaker 2
like, no, you need to practice this shit, bro. And yeah. And so once you can do that, then it becomes second nature. Yes. Right. Yeah. It takes time.

01:34:05.720 — 01:34:06.320 · Speaker 1
It takes a lot.

01:34:06.360 — 01:34:09.519 · Speaker 2
How long did it take you before you felt like? For me, it was about

01:34:10.840 — 01:34:18.399 · Speaker 2
ten years. Yeah. Yeah. I would say I would, I would even say it wasn’t even second. Like, I just started to, like, become aware that it was always a possibility.

01:34:18.440 — 01:34:22.919 · Speaker 1
Yeah. I would say probably like 8 to 10.

01:34:22.960 — 01:34:23.440 · Speaker 2
Mhm.

01:34:23.480 — 01:34:24.200 · Speaker 1
8 to 10.

01:34:24.240 — 01:34:24.600 · Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:34:24.639 — 01:34:26.639 · Speaker 1
And and now you know like

01:34:27.679 — 01:34:35.280 · Speaker 1
somebody asked me the other day during a retreat like what’s the ideal. What is this. What does this go towards. What’s the ideal place we should be.

01:34:35.360 — 01:34:39.480 · Speaker 2
Right about now. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

01:34:40.280 — 01:35:17.330 · Speaker 1
Yeah. And the only thing I could think of is, like, no thought. Like eventually having no thought about what you’re doing, why you’re doing it, how you’re doing it. Be because I don’t know about you, but, like, I don’t think about being masculine or being feminine at any point during my day. Yeah. It’s just because we’ve spent time recognizing, oh, if I put my body in stillness, there’s this effect.

If I let energy run freely in my body. There’s like, we’ve we’ve paid attention to. If you do this with the description, if you do this, this will happen enough times that it just becomes, as you said, second nature. And you can start to

01:35:18.370 — 01:35:28.530 · Speaker 1
become more again. For me, it’s about like not suffering and becoming more free. That’s what it’s all about. Yeah. If if I’m doing that, then I had a good day. Yeah.

01:35:28.530 — 01:36:18.380 · Speaker 2
You know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I think the thing, you know, that I teach and you teach and David just wrote about is like, you know, that freedom is not a switch, not a situational thing, right? It’s not like you, you know, you sell your company and then travel to a visa, and you’re now you’re free. Right. It’s freedom is an internal state of mind.

It’s available for anybody at any time, at any moment, even when moments of conflict come up. Right. So that’s an important one to transition to. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So we mentioned practice for conflict resolution. Right. And how do we bring the tools that we have to regulate our nervous systems to help regulate their nervous system.

So what would you consider to be the nuts and bolts of sort of conflict resolution? Because I know that’s a big issue for a lot of people. Yeah.

01:36:18.420 — 01:37:09.390 · Speaker 1
The keys are just as you said, it’s nervous system regulation. There’s all kinds of like communication techniques and things like that. But at the end of the day, it’s two nervous systems that are either regulated and connected or dysregulated and disconnected. And so my approach is always to like, what can I do to regulate my own nervous system?

So that might be, you know, feeling the present sensations of my body like my feet on the ground. Breath is a big one. So like feeling my feet on the ground, allowing my breath to be full. Because when we get dysregulated, usually our body wants to tighten. Right. Tension arises in the front of the body especially.

And that’s where we relate. And we relate from the front of our body. And so if we’re close and tight,

01:37:10.590 — 01:37:15.949 · Speaker 1
that love can’t flow. That’s one way to put it. That connection can’t be there. So yeah. So

01:37:17.110 — 01:38:00.910 · Speaker 1
um, just noticing like where am I holding tension in my body. Oh my forehead, oh my jaw, oh my solar plexus. Oh, fuck. I don’t want her to, you know, say that. Oh that hurt. But, you know, I’m reacting to things rather than allowing myself to be in a state of sovereignty of of regulation. So which is easier said than done.

You know, just your partner could look at you in a certain way and all of a sudden you’re, you know, your ass is tight, your jaw is tight, you’re ready for a fight, you know? And so, um, but that’s where it starts, like in every moment, Especially coming from, um, I think, um, from the, from the male side in the heterosexual relationship,

01:38:02.150 — 01:38:51.080 · Speaker 1
when his nervous system is grounded, it’s far easier for hers to return to that as well. If his is dysregulated, then hers has it like she has no ground to stand on is how it feels to me. Um, it’s very rare in my relationship that she’s the one that comes back to regulation before I do. Right. It’s much more of of of a dance where I can return to groundedness and, you know, softness in my body, awareness of my breath, the basics of connection that you teach, that I teach is like those are them.

Like softness in the front of your body, awareness of your breath, um, eye contact. Right. Like, and those are radical. Those are radical things to do when you’re in college.

01:38:51.120 — 01:38:54.640 · Speaker 2
Soft voice, soft eyes. Yeah, there’s a radical there.

01:38:54.680 — 01:38:57.080 · Speaker 1
They feel like death. They feel like failure.

01:38:57.320 — 01:38:57.600 · Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:38:57.840 — 01:39:03.880 · Speaker 1
Yeah. They feel like. Yeah. This is the last thing I want to do. Yeah. Is to be soft and unguarded.

01:39:03.920 — 01:39:04.200 · Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:39:04.240 — 01:39:08.640 · Speaker 1
And, you know, like an open my heart to this person.

01:39:08.640 — 01:39:31.560 · Speaker 2
So you just, you know. So you’re in a difficult conversation with your partner, right? You’re actually remembering these things. Like. Yeah. Soften my heart. Like a like a water balloon. Right. Or, you know, soften. You know, deep in my breath and soften my belly. If they can, I consciously soften my eyes and my jaw and my ass and just let the whole center column soften that.

01:39:31.560 — 01:39:33.160 · Speaker 1
She could be saying all kinds of things.

01:39:33.160 — 01:39:33.640 · Speaker 2
I know.

01:39:33.800 — 01:39:44.800 · Speaker 1
And this is what’s happening on the inside. If you actually want to resolve conflict. Yeah. Do that. Yeah. Don’t try and nitpick their words. Yeah. From the man side especially. Yeah. Um, do.

01:39:45.000 — 01:39:46.120 · Speaker 2
You know women can do this, too?

01:39:46.160 — 01:39:46.880 · Speaker 1
Oh, 100%.

01:39:46.880 — 01:39:59.930 · Speaker 2
Women can do this, too. Of course. Like, you know. So this is, you know, this is just not a masculine thing, you know? But but yeah, women can absolutely soften their cervix, soften their hearts, soften their throat. Right. You know, that’s the. Yeah. That’s the feminine equivalent.

01:39:59.970 — 01:40:07.010 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. And when you do that you’re signaling to your partner like it’s safe.

01:40:07.050 — 01:40:07.570 · Speaker 2
Mhm.

01:40:08.170 — 01:40:25.770 · Speaker 1
We don’t have to be against each other. We can remember the love that’s here. And that that to me is step number one of of conflict resolution is like coming back to that whatever you want to call it love connection intimacy.

01:40:26.930 — 01:40:59.580 · Speaker 1
Because that’s where things that’s where you could actually resolve things. That’s where things are resolved naturally. Um, trying to fight it out, you know, and like, you’re never going to come to some logical agreement through fighting, you know, like it’s going to come through softening, it’s going to come through regulating and then Returning to that together.

So for me, that’s always what I’m. What I’m doing is like, as soon as I can remember it, you know, which might take a minute. Yeah, yeah. Because when I’m activated, I’m active. Yeah, yeah.

01:40:59.580 — 01:41:32.100 · Speaker 2
You know, my trick is to start. If I know, you know, we’re going to meet on the couch in 20 minutes. Like, you know, I’m. I’m outside or I’m in my room, like, okay, you know, softening, feeling the wide expanse of love in my heart and just kind of finding it first before I actually sit down on the couch. And then it’s a matter of just continuing to remember.

So you talked about, you know, prepping your body before practice, right? Or before sex, with which people rarely do. Right. But it’s really, really important. But, you know, prepping your body before a conflict discussion also really important. Yeah.

01:41:32.140 — 01:41:53.630 · Speaker 1
Yeah. See, for me, I, I don’t like to spend time and maybe this is a therapeutic thing to work out, but I don’t like spending time in disconnection. Yeah I just don’t allow it. Yeah, yeah. So if something arises like I don’t know if we’ve ever had like a scheduled conflict conversation because if something arises, it’s like, let’s do this right now.

Let’s deal with this thing.

01:41:53.790 — 01:41:58.030 · Speaker 2
And you guys have open more flexible schedules. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for.

01:41:58.030 — 01:41:58.590 · Speaker 1
Sure, for.

01:41:58.590 — 01:42:07.230 · Speaker 2
Sure. I’m I’m with you. I’m the same, same ilk. Like, okay, if something’s something’s disturbing the field of love. Like, my inclination is to immediately. Let’s handle it. Yeah, yeah.

01:42:07.270 — 01:42:27.070 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s that classic wisdom of, like, don’t go to bed angry. It’s like, well, don’t spend five minutes angry. You don’t have to, you know, like that. There is a way. And it’s why it’s so important for us to do whatever practices get us in touch with something deeper, man or woman, that allow you to

01:42:28.910 — 01:42:36.150 · Speaker 1
to move past triggers as they arise to return to a place of regulation. Otherwise,

01:42:37.390 — 01:43:54.010 · Speaker 1
I mean, it amazes me that people decide to spend days and weeks, you know, letting conflict ruined their experience of each other. Yeah. Um, so those are the things that help me is like using, um, you know, my awareness to soften my body, deepen my breath. Turning towards each other is often a good way to do it, because our bodies want to turn away, right?

We want to flee. So turning just like again, that could be a radical thing to do. It’s like you guys are upset and this is something that I do all the time. Like, if there’s conflict and I notice my body wants to turn away, wants to avoid, I will consciously turn the front of my body to face her and just that to the person, not to my woman in that moment.

Like it’s it. It’s an invitation. It’s an invitation to become unguarded, to let go of the fight and return to love and will work out whatever needs to be worked out from there, you know, which is its own thing, right? Like taking responsibility. Acknowledging impact. You know, like empathizing with what it is and empathizing.

01:43:54.210 — 01:44:35.970 · Speaker 2
So, so just connect those dots because I think most people aren’t making this connection. Empathy happens much easier from a regulated nervous system. It’s you know, I’ve I’ve learned to practice even when I get dysregulated to find empathy. So I’m always asking the question of like, and this is this is what I’m finding to be the, the key issue in conflict resolution, which is do I care about her experience right now?

Yeah, right. Which is basically empathy. Right. So empathy is going to happen from a much more regulated nervous system. Much easier. But empathy is absolutely needed. Right. Do I care. And you know, can she feel that I care about her nervous system? Yeah.

01:44:36.010 — 01:45:48.710 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. Two nervous systems in conflict that they’re separate. So something like empathy creates that bridge that says like, they’re not separate from me. If I care about her experience, I will feel her experience. I will know what it is. And the moment we have that, there’s a there’s opportunity for connection.

We’re not two separate beings with two separate stories fighting for two separate things. There’s a sense of oneness which which is, in my experience, what regulation feels like. Like when we’re when when my wife and I are in a regulated state, it’s like we’re the same. I can feel what happens for her. She can feel it.

What happens for me? And there’s not this like, I mean, we’re not enlightened, so we’re obviously like two egos. But, um, when there’s conflict, it’s like, you know, it’s like two separate beings, two separate stories. Um, and it’s it’s an art of trying to, you know, relax your own nervous system and then relax theirs.

You know, that’s sort of the second piece that that I’m always working to is like,

01:45:49.750 — 01:46:01.310 · Speaker 1
how can my nervous system first be an invitation? Like, you don’t want to try and, like, breathe, you know, breathe. Come on. Relax your body. That’s not gonna work. You gotta be the invitation for it first.

01:46:01.550 — 01:46:04.830 · Speaker 2
And then what are some what are some ways that you would relax her? Yeah.

01:46:04.870 — 01:46:31.910 · Speaker 1
So? So it could be inviting her to turn towards me. You know, that might be the thing that sort of dharmas. Whatever’s come up. Um, it might be. It depends on the moment, but some kind of physical contact, like I might, you know, take my hand and run it through her hair or, like, give her just, like, a gentle, grounding touch, like helping her to return to this moment.

Now, depending on how activated she is, that might be the last thing that I.

01:46:31.910 — 01:46:32.510 · Speaker 2
Want to do.

01:46:32.710 — 01:47:05.200 · Speaker 1
That she wants me to do, but. Right. Um, coming back to the basics of intimacy so I can tag if if I can make maintain eye contact with her. That tells her nervous system he’s safe. This moment is safe. Not consciously, but unconsciously. It can feel that if I can become aware of my own breath and then gently connect it with hers, I just start to breathe with her as she’s sharing or emoting or whatever it is.

01:47:06.320 — 01:47:20.720 · Speaker 1
Give that enough time and that whoever has the most relaxed nervous system will. Eventually, I think in my experience, the other will anchor to that. It will come down to that level. Yeah.

01:47:20.720 — 01:47:23.640 · Speaker 2
And it’s not always going to be the man. No, no it’s not.

01:47:23.680 — 01:47:24.480 · Speaker 1
Definitely not.

01:47:24.520 — 01:47:25.240 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.

01:47:25.280 — 01:47:50.170 · Speaker 1
No, it’s it’s whoever has the awareness, the presence of mind to do it. It’s their responsibility. Yeah. That’s how it occurs to me is like whoever can remember love should be the one to remember love. In other words, regulate your nervous system and be an invitation for connection again. And then from there.

Resolve, resolve, resolve, resolve whatever needs to be resolved.

01:47:50.250 — 01:47:56.610 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, and and what are some tools you use for resolution other than, say, empathy? Yeah.

01:47:56.650 — 01:48:01.850 · Speaker 1
Well, so so first is just like acknowledging each other’s experience.

01:48:02.250 — 01:48:02.690 · Speaker 2
Mhm.

01:48:02.770 — 01:48:26.490 · Speaker 1
And that starts with usually it’s like taking turns for that. Yeah. And what a lot of partners do. They try and both be acknowledged at the same time. Yeah. It doesn’t work like it. So so you know taking turns okay. This was your experience. And then once you’ve heard that once you’ve heard your partner’s experience acknowledging it.

01:48:26.690 — 01:48:27.330 · Speaker 2
Yeah that makes.

01:48:27.330 — 01:48:27.890 · Speaker 1
Sense. It makes.

01:48:27.890 — 01:48:28.170 · Speaker 2
Sense.

01:48:28.210 — 01:48:49.010 · Speaker 1
Yeah yeah yeah I didn’t see it that way. I didn’t I didn’t know I was doing that. Um, And then comes just like a sentence or two, like, I’m so sorry. You know, like acknowledging. And then like, that must have really sucked. It must have really hurt. You know, because when somebody is in a dysregulated moment, they’re not who you think they are.

01:48:49.090 — 01:48:49.570 · Speaker 2
Mhm.

01:48:49.770 — 01:48:59.770 · Speaker 1
They’re like five years old. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And so how would you, would you try and argue it out with a five year old. Yeah. Or would you just be like ah I’m so sorry.

01:48:59.810 — 01:49:00.170 · Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:49:00.210 — 01:49:34.700 · Speaker 1
You know I didn’t know I did that. Yeah. Even if you didn’t mean to. And the intention wasn’t there. All that stuff doesn’t really matter. It’s like there was an impact. You acknowledge it. You take responsibility for whatever you can in the process. And then you. I mean, to me, it’s like, then you make some kind of commitment to return to love.

Like, okay. Like, I’m so sorry that that happened. Like, next time I’m going to be more aware. I’m going to attempt to do this or not do this or whatever. And and I’m and I’m really with you now.

01:49:34.820 — 01:50:07.780 · Speaker 2
Yeah. So just to kind of, you know, give them a structure for home. It’s acknowledging their experience, hearing their experience, acknowledging their experience, giving some empathy to their experience and then apologizing. Yeah. If there’s something you can do with some kind of commitment to to move forward.

Right. Okay. Um, I love Terry Real’s version of this, which is like, you’re right, I did that. Yeah, I’ve done that before. Yes. I understand how frustrating it could be if I keep doing that. And I want you to know that I’m going to really work hard to not do that. Yeah, yeah.

01:50:07.820 — 01:50:57.990 · Speaker 1
That question of like, where are they? Right. Yeah, that’s a great one. Yeah. Just like ask yourself where are they. Right. Um, even though I want to deny it or 99% of it I think is wrong, where are they. Right. And then acknowledge that, empathize with that and apologize for that. And then in that apology, recommit, recommit to loving each other and like being with each other now and establishing that the more you focus on the past, the more the past is going to be.

What colors your experience? Yeah. So that’s the other thing that I would do from the male perspective of conflict resolution is orienting to what’s happening now in the end, which ideally is love, softness, connection, presence. Because

01:50:59.070 — 01:51:08.710 · Speaker 1
again, the feminine changes. And uh, something that I’ve been kind of playing with is how the feminine nervous system experiences time very differently.

01:51:08.750 — 01:51:11.390 · Speaker 2
Yeah, I know there’s only there’s only now. It’s only now. There’s only.

01:51:11.390 — 01:51:21.870 · Speaker 1
Now. And so if now is good. Yeah. Then that conflict ten minutes ago is gone. Yes, exactly. And not as a way to manipulate. But just like that’s just how it is. Like now is all there.

01:51:21.910 — 01:51:43.760 · Speaker 2
The only time is now. And the only truth is how I feel for anybody in their feminine, for anybody in their feminine. Just look at a child. Yeah, right. Yeah. And. And not to being in your feminine childish is just like that. That the nature of the feminine is now. And the nature of the feminine is expression and feeling.

So for anybody in their feminine and for masculine beings, that can be crazy.

01:51:43.920 — 01:51:46.040 · Speaker 1
Yeah. It makes it’s so different.

01:51:46.080 — 01:51:47.000 · Speaker 2
Yes. It’s so different.

01:51:47.040 — 01:52:01.600 · Speaker 1
It’s so different. And so that’s one again, one of those principles. Like the feminine nervous system experiences everything as if it were right now. And so if right now is good and right now is, is the experience of love, then that will color

01:52:03.040 — 01:52:22.880 · Speaker 1
everything. It will cover all the paths and all the future. And so in a moment of conflict from a from a man side, you could ask yourself like, am I creating a good experience right now? Am I participating in a presence loving, attuned experience right now? And if not.

01:52:22.920 — 01:52:24.000 · Speaker 2
Yeah. That’s so key.

01:52:24.040 — 01:52:25.400 · Speaker 1
Man, how can I get there?

01:52:25.440 — 01:52:49.170 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, That’s so key. Yeah. So I think that the people watching will be like. Okay. Like, how do we how do we start to bring more of this into our life? How do we start to bring words into our life? So I think, you know, maybe we can talk a little bit about our own personal journeys and, and practices and how we learned and how we, you know, what we teach and all of that so that people can get an idea of what’s possible.

01:52:49.210 — 01:52:56.289 · Speaker 1
One thing that I remember David saying, when time is like, you shouldn’t be doing practices unsupervised early on

01:52:57.610 — 01:53:55.300 · Speaker 1
because you’re just liable to, uh, trigger each other and both believe you’re right and go into your patterns, you know? And so part of why we can talk about this with such nuance and facility is like what we’ve spent a lot of time in retreats and workshops and exercises where what we do in those is, you know, what we what we take people through now and what you know, but we still do as participants is like, go into the relational moment or go into the thing that closes us, that triggers us, that collapses us, and then practice.

Then, like with the help of, you know, our teachers, like learn how to meet that moment through these things we’ve been talking about with our breath, with our awareness, with how we hold the other person, how we see them. And that’s that’s what we do on retreats is like create experiences where you’re gonna fail.

Yeah.

01:53:55.540 — 01:54:34.230 · Speaker 2
Or it’s kind of like a like for people who have been to yoga retreats, right? Like there’s this very specific sort of sadhana or asana that you do that’s guided. You move this way, you move this way, you breathe this way. Right? And then you kind of get to an edge and then open in that edge. It’s the same thing in working with sexual yoga or sacred intimacy, right, of, you know, you look at you’re working with a partner, you’re looking into each other’s eyes, you’re breathing together.

You start to kind of play in different polarities. You reach an edge and then you like, okay, how do I relax into this edge and let things kind of move from here. And that does take supervised practice. Yeah.

01:54:34.270 — 01:54:35.150 · Speaker 1
Well because what you.

01:54:35.150 — 01:54:36.430 · Speaker 2
Did for me. Yeah.

01:54:36.430 — 01:54:57.550 · Speaker 1
What you have in those moments is you have I mean, if you’re coming to one of our retreats, they have one of us maybe next year. Both of us. Yeah, yeah. To lend our practice to them so that we can be the thing that is reminding them. Remember your breath. Soften the front of your body. You know, feel your Dante in and out of your heart.

01:54:57.590 — 01:54:58.030 · Speaker 2
You know.

01:54:58.150 — 01:55:30.040 · Speaker 1
Reminding them of these things. Because it’s fucking hard, yeah, to remember on your own when you’re in a regulated state. Yeah, yeah. And then even harder when you’re in a dysregulated state. And so the beauty of the work that we teach is we can create not like we want to put people into traumatic experiences or challenging experiences, but create opportunities for them to meet their patterns.

Meet their challenges that they that they have in their relationship, that they have in their daily life and learn how to.

01:55:32.160 — 01:56:53.610 · Speaker 1
Meet it well, practice with it. Um, like not be collapsed and triggered by it. But like, for example, a classic one is like meeting the feminine storm, right? Like classic relationship dynamic between a man and a woman as a woman is very upset and a man has no clue how to respond. And the real opportunity is that she is just energy that wants to be felt and met and penetrated.

Right? And there’s actually opportunity for really hot sex and intimacy and juice. But most men have been conditioned to go like, fuck that, I’m shutting down. Or, you know, um, they’ll try and overpower her with their own feminine anger. That kind of stuff. None of which lead to connection and intimacy and juiciness.

So what we can do in a retreat is go. All right, women, we know you’ve got a little bit of, you know, stuff in there from little buildup. Yeah. Little buildup. Um, let’s create an experience where you can express that and men can learn how to meet it. It’s such a we do that in all kinds of ways, but it’s such an obvious one.

Yeah, man, can’t listen to this podcast and then go do that. I mean, maybe really skilled ones, but but.

01:56:53.610 — 01:56:54.610 · Speaker 2
Most of them cannot.

01:56:54.650 — 01:57:03.730 · Speaker 1
Yeah. I think we need to train. We need to have our nervous system. Yeah. Go through the experience while somebody’s supporting us.

01:57:03.770 — 01:57:04.810 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:57:04.850 — 01:57:31.140 · Speaker 1
Reminding us what to do, and then we feel it. Yeah. Oh, shit. Yeah. Like, I just walked right through that storm, and now she’s all turned on. And I feel super powerful and. Okay, now it’s in my body. Now I can actually call upon that the next time it happens. You know, in my real life. My real relationship. And so we fabricate these kinds of experiences so that people can,

01:57:32.260 — 01:57:44.700 · Speaker 1
um, actually access the thing that we could all access, like, we could. Anybody listening to this podcast could do any of these things and so much more. Mhm. They just don’t quite know it yet. Yeah.

01:57:44.740 — 01:59:04.950 · Speaker 2
I think that’s the thing that always blew my mind was when I, when I went into my first workshop with David in 2008, I was just like nobody told me. Yeah. Nobody told me that this was available. Nobody told me that this that kind of. I remember doing the exact practice. You’re talking about that workshop. Yeah, right.

She’s raging. I breathe her in and pull her close to me. She keeps raging, and then if I press my belly into her, she starts to cry. And then. Okay. Yeah. Wow. I had no idea. Why did she give me this at, like, five? Totally. You know, and and I think that that’s, you know, so if you’re not, if you’re not going to do this with one of us and you want to learn these, these practices, like find somebody who teaches this stuff.

Yeah. And and practice it. Because being able to take your practice off the mat and take it home, right is going to be the result of of training. Yeah. Of training just like any, any skill. And the thing that always blows my mind is when you think about how much money people spend on business training, marketing training, mindset training, you know what I mean?

Like even, you know, spiritual practice, which is, you know, obviously great, but but the sort of like the amount of money and time spent on all of these areas. But relationship is the place where most people suffer. Yeah. And they don’t actually train in how to work with that.

01:59:04.990 — 01:59:09.150 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No matter how successful you are,

01:59:11.070 — 01:59:53.470 · Speaker 1
if your relationship is shit, Your whole life will be shit like your. Well, it just bleeds through everything. I know you’ve seen it over and over again. Just like me. Yeah yeah yeah yeah, yeah, just like me. Um, but you go away for a weekend and you train on how to be skillful relationally when you walk back in that door, you know, on Monday or whatever.

Yeah. It’s like, all right, game on. I didn’t know I could this whole thing could have been this, like, epic opportunity to to play, to practice, to to learn, to grow in most people, I think it’s just like we think we should. Everybody knows it and we should know it.

01:59:53.510 — 02:00:01.670 · Speaker 2
Unless you have the most like, you know, yogic trained, meditative parents on the planet, then you probably do not know this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:00:01.710 — 02:00:08.630 · Speaker 1
And the thing is, is that it’s just it’s like a it’s like physics. Yeah. You know, like, if you do this.

02:00:08.710 — 02:00:45.160 · Speaker 2
And it’ll evoke this. Yeah, yeah. This thing will happen. Yeah. Laws of magnetism. Laws of evocation. Laws of polarity. All of those same laws apply into humans. That’s just like they do in the universe. Yeah. So that is our pitch to get on the mat and practice and get trained. Yeah. All right, Ben, any final thoughts?

Anything that feels, I guess, a cool place to end, I think would be like, what’s what’s really on your radar now, like, in terms of, like, places people can deepen in their practice. Maybe you’ve touched on them already, but what’s, what’s really like the you’re like, I’m really wanting to teach this.

02:00:45.960 — 02:01:17.770 · Speaker 1
I mean, to be honest with you, like, I’m, I think I’m 9 or 10 retreats, like coed retreats. And, you know, I’ve been doing it pretty full on for the last 3 or 4 years. Um, and I feel like most people who have come to every single one and I feel like we’ve reached about this much of what’s actually possible. Um, what I would really want to take people into is, is like actually working with the physical body.

Like what we do so much is it’s highly boundary.

02:01:17.890 — 02:01:19.050 · Speaker 2
Which I enjoy. Yeah. Yeah.

02:01:19.090 — 02:01:31.770 · Speaker 1
I love you know, it allows for so much to to happen. Yeah. So much safety to be there. Yeah. But what I yearn for is a group of people who could actually, like, have their big boy and big girl pants on

02:01:32.970 — 02:01:46.530 · Speaker 1
throughout a whole weekend, and likely something that would have to happen with couples, people who actually, you know, love and trust each other and have experience with each other. But there’s so much available to us in the,

02:01:48.130 — 02:01:56.370 · Speaker 1
um, the sexual realms that are not possible in the energetic, just the energetic don’t have to be like that.

02:01:56.370 — 02:01:57.570 · Speaker 2
All that sexual. Yeah.

02:01:57.770 — 02:02:38.020 · Speaker 1
But just I love helping people see what’s possible with their bodies, you know, and with another body and just. Oh, you know, if you move your hand just like that. And that’s a whole different experience. Yeah. Yeah. Um. So. Yeah. Helping people to really. Ultimately, ultimately, it comes down to being free in their sex and their expression of sexuality and their, um, experience of sexuality and their felicity, like facility of it.

Facility of it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, because so many of us, we didn’t get any handbook. We didn’t get any instruction. We were just thrown out into the world expecting.

02:02:38.420 — 02:03:46.630 · Speaker 2
The joy of sex. Yeah. Yeah. No. You know, later, I found the Kama Sutra, but. Fuck, yeah. Yeah. We didn’t get much. Mhm. Yeah. I think for me, what I’m really enjoying is, is like going back to the essential aspects of polarity practice, which is that one partner is the ocean of love and one partner is the infinite expanse of consciousness.

And then you just put the two bodies together and you let that you let the emergent moment kind of take things someplace. And you saw this at teacher training in Shasta, like, as people rest in that thoughtless place, like stuff just starts to clear and open and move and, and so I’ve just really after, you know, having all these, you know, and I still love that sort of creative and complicated practices.

But man, just getting people into the basics of like, like just the infinite expanse of consciousness embodied and the ocean of love embodied. And you put those two together and nature just kind of takes care of the rest. And just stuff clears. Stuff heals. Stuff opens. Stuff moves. Yeah, yeah, that’s that’s a good time for me.

02:03:46.670 — 02:03:47.670 · Speaker 1
Yeah for sure.

02:03:47.710 — 02:04:04.990 · Speaker 2
Right on. Mhm. All right. Well this has been, this has been really cool. Like jamming about practice and getting out about practice. We’ll do this again. Yeah. You know I think I think it’d be really fun to do this again in a year or so and like, okay. Like, what’s new on your practice, you know, board. Um, anyway, thank you.

Alan. I appreciate you being here.

02:04:05.110 — 02:04:05.550 · Speaker 1
Appreciate it.

02:04:05.590 — 02:04:05.950 · Speaker 2
Yeah.