# tactiq.io free youtube transcript
# Attachment Wounding and the Art of Self Regulation with Sheleana Aiyana
# https://www.youtube.com/watch/G33XQ6IdlgA

00:00:00.040 when I’m working with people who are
00:00:01.319 anxious a lot of times they struggle to
00:00:03.439 even get a a positive view of their
00:00:06.440 relationship or their partner at all so
00:00:07.839 if you were to ask them about their
00:00:09.760 relationship they might be able to
00:00:11.519 easily list all of the negative things
00:00:13.839 so as a practitioner you might think
00:00:15.599 well wow that relationship’s terrible
00:00:17.119 your partner sucks but if you really
00:00:19.000 drill down and you ask the right
00:00:20.480 questions you’ll find that they actually
00:00:21.960 have a really loving partner sometimes
00:00:23.800 and that their partner is doing all of
00:00:25.160 these incredible things but as the
00:00:27.599 anxious type they’re not Orient to
00:00:30.320 seeing that and so you actually have to
00:00:33.000 work to recognize good in the
00:00:37.760 world so Shay welcome thank you so much
00:00:40.600 for coming to Austin from Canada and you
00:00:43.920 know bringing your beautiful family and
00:00:45.920 uh I’m really excited to get into this
00:00:47.879 because this has been a drum I’ve been
00:00:49.800 pounding for a while and just to set it
00:00:52.039 up for for my audience you know the the
00:00:54.559 work of sacred intimacy and yogic
00:00:56.719 sexuality and all that juicy tantric
00:01:00.079 Dost work that that I do um is real easy
00:01:04.239 to get into it’s also very easy to make
00:01:08.000 very deep shifts pretty quickly you know
00:01:10.640 a workshop or two you can get a pretty
00:01:12.960 good skill set together and you can take
00:01:16.640 it home and start to use it but what
00:01:18.960 I’ve found you know as I’ve gotten older
00:01:21.000 and gone through relationships I found
00:01:22.920 that the real blockages to uh intimacy
00:01:26.720 are not just yogic but they’re also
00:01:29.200 therapeutic they’re also karmic they’re
00:01:32.079 the more tender places that we get stuck
00:01:35.159 and where there’s usually conflict and
00:01:37.479 lack of resolution and really hurt
00:01:40.439 feelings and frazzled nervous systems
00:01:42.439 and ultimately breakups and so what I’ve
00:01:44.759 really discovered is that this this
00:01:46.960 realm um my teacher David would call
00:01:49.360 this second stage work right the second
00:01:51.520 stage work of becoming a whole human
00:01:54.200 requires the healing requires us to
00:01:56.520 really identify the pathologies and
00:01:59.520 pattern s and triggers and big feelings
00:02:03.159 that we haven’t fully felt and all of
00:02:05.240 this stuff that is not so sexy but is so
00:02:08.280 important for long-term safety in
00:02:11.560 relationship and and I know that in your
00:02:14.360 programs you’ve really
00:02:16.200 emphasized um these relational tools
00:02:18.920 these this relational awareness I’m
00:02:21.040 happy that we’re going to be getting
00:02:21.959 into attachment wounding because I think
00:02:24.200 that’s actually the more I study it the
00:02:25.920 more I apply it to my own life I can
00:02:28.160 really feel it as the Lynch pin of
00:02:30.800 what’s needed in order to build this
00:02:33.480 kind of you know sacred intimacy Temple
00:02:36.720 so before you know we get into you know
00:02:38.760 the stories you know all the all the
00:02:41.319 places where we run a muck in our
00:02:43.680 relationships I’d love to just uh tell
00:02:45.959 the audience who you are and what you do
00:02:48.200 and a little bit of your story what what
00:02:50.239 brought you into this work yeah thanks
00:02:52.080 for having me and first I just want to
00:02:53.879 say I’m really grateful to share this
00:02:55.840 time with you and I’ve really
00:02:57.120 appreciated and admired your work for a
00:02:58.840 really long time thank you and you know
00:03:00.560 this I’ve I send people your way all of
00:03:02.200 the time so I see so much value in the
00:03:04.000 work that you bring and so it’s nice to
00:03:06.040 come together to talk about these things
00:03:07.560 because I really do see my work and your
00:03:09.640 work as sort of a connected bridge where
00:03:11.920 they sort of need each other in order to
00:03:14.440 thrive yeah um I started out in this
00:03:18.799 work because I needed it myself um as
00:03:21.599 I’m sure you can relate totally um so
00:03:25.120 when I was really young I grew up with a
00:03:27.720 a mother who struggled with mental
00:03:29.200 illness and severe post-traumatic stress
00:03:32.280 disorder right um alcoholism addiction
00:03:36.400 just you name it really she struggled a
00:03:38.400 lot and she’s really lucky to be alive
00:03:40.480 honestly so I’m so impressed and
00:03:42.840 inspired by her resilience but she
00:03:45.760 really didn’t have the capacity to
00:03:47.640 Mother me in a secure way at all so I
00:03:49.959 was in and out of foster homes uh there
00:03:52.400 was a lot of abuse of all kinds in my
00:03:55.680 early history um I was ward of the
00:03:59.400 government by 12 so they they were my
00:04:01.879 Guardians wow um lots of drug use
00:04:05.680 Addiction on my end uh so by the time I
00:04:08.920 was 19 I was out on my own at 16 at 19 I
00:04:13.720 was like okay I want to clean up my life
00:04:16.680 I ended up in a really abusive
00:04:18.120 relationship of course because my whole
00:04:20.639 history was that’s what we do exact yeah
00:04:23.080 it was total chaos so you know uh about
00:04:27.400 19 years old I I move in with this guy
00:04:29.479 and it turns out he’s extremely
00:04:31.320 dangerous and violent and so I escape
00:04:34.479 that relationship and truly I say Escape
00:04:36.960 because that’s what it was uh and it was
00:04:39.160 around that time I must have been 20 and
00:04:41.800 I had my first little Spiritual
00:04:43.880 Awakening and I really started to open
00:04:46.360 up to the world of spirituality you know
00:04:48.560 I was like oh Crystal healing and all of
00:04:51.199 these things which are you know lovely
00:04:52.720 but especially in our culture Western
00:04:55.280 culture they’re very superficial uh and
00:04:58.080 so I began down the path ended up in a a
00:05:01.520 marriage to somebody very young in my
00:05:03.560 early 20s who was just the safe and
00:05:05.960 boring but actually it was really also a
00:05:08.440 not a good container that ended in
00:05:10.680 absolute betrayal in every way um which
00:05:13.720 woke me up and so I had this experience
00:05:15.680 of him driving off with another woman
00:05:18.960 and he had taken everything for me I
00:05:20.600 lost all my money my business my my cat
00:05:22.840 ran away um and as he was driving away I
00:05:26.240 just had this flashback of being three
00:05:28.720 and I remember kicking in Screaming in
00:05:30.720 the Night my mom had just dropped me off
00:05:32.600 at a foster home in the night and I had
00:05:34.319 no idea what was happening and uh it was
00:05:36.800 that core imprint that core wound of
00:05:39.080 Abandonment that was flooding through me
00:05:41.080 and it was this feeling of panic yeah
00:05:44.199 and in that same moment I just felt so
00:05:46.120 relieved I was like oh thank God this is
00:05:48.919 not about him this actually is about me
00:05:51.520 so that means that if I’m feeling this
00:05:53.039 because of this past incident and and
00:05:55.720 this traumatic history that I’m carrying
00:05:57.440 then that means that I can heal it and
00:05:58.880 that means I can be okay um so I I began
00:06:02.400 studying with a spiritual teacher I
00:06:04.039 started working with plant medicines I
00:06:05.840 was doing breath work I did therapy I
00:06:07.919 did everything you could imagine Under
00:06:09.800 the Sun and then once I began to
00:06:11.880 integrate that healing I started to
00:06:13.319 train as a practitioner I what was the
00:06:15.479 modality that you started with um I
00:06:17.639 started with transpersonal therapy okay
00:06:20.560 um so doing a lot of deeper more like
00:06:23.960 actually more tantric Shadow work um and
00:06:27.639 it was quite intense like I actually
00:06:28.919 wouldn’t recommend the containers that I
00:06:31.520 went into to most people um they’re
00:06:34.919 quite triggering quite just really
00:06:37.000 intense yeah I’m sure you can imagine
00:06:40.199 right so it’s sort of like level 10 you
00:06:42.120 just dive in but that’s my style so I
00:06:44.039 just went for it and then I ended up
00:06:46.120 apprenticing with that transpersonal um
00:06:48.720 therapist and teacher for many years and
00:06:52.199 and then I built Rising woman and I
00:06:54.199 started it off as just a way to write
00:06:56.479 and share my work and it skyrocketed and
00:07:00.879 it’s now 2.6 million VI you have a huge
00:07:04.400 you have a huge following that’s so
00:07:05.840 beautiful yeah yeah yeah I didn’t really
00:07:08.440 expect that uh to happen I mean
00:07:10.879 obviously I had a feeling that this was
00:07:12.840 a mission greater than me um but it just
00:07:14.800 sort of took on a life of its own and uh
00:07:17.280 in 2022 I published a book um called
00:07:20.160 becoming the one yeah it’s really
00:07:21.319 beautiful book yeah and that book became
00:07:23.000 an international bestseller and it’s
00:07:24.759 really the book is about your
00:07:26.879 relationship to yourself so the whole
00:07:28.400 premise is there is no one outside of
00:07:31.120 you of course we’re wired for love we’re
00:07:33.520 wired to connect and attach and at the
00:07:35.919 same time your relationship with you is
00:07:38.080 the foundation from which all other
00:07:39.960 relationships flourish so that’s my work
00:07:42.879 yeah wow what have you seen shift like
00:07:45.560 like the evolution of when you started
00:07:48.280 you know you started Rising woman to now
00:07:50.479 what have you seen what what has kind of
00:07:52.800 piqued your interest what has become
00:07:54.960 sort of the the meat and potatoes of of
00:07:57.560 what you offer and and how is it shifted
00:08:00.039 over the course of the years yeah you
00:08:02.400 know when I started I was really into
00:08:04.400 the transpersonal work and into the
00:08:06.120 shadow work and I think it’s a really
00:08:07.759 valuable aspect of doing our inner work
00:08:10.720 but the deeper I went and I began
00:08:12.080 training in sematic work and then I
00:08:13.879 discovered sematic experiencing and that
00:08:16.280 really flipped a lid for me uh it
00:08:19.000 changed a lot for me I can remember
00:08:20.680 doing my own I did a week for a year
00:08:23.319 every week for a year sematic
00:08:24.879 experiencing the practitioner and she
00:08:27.840 would be holding my kidneys and all
00:08:29.639 sudden I would see the exact pattern
00:08:32.159 that was releasing my kidney would tell
00:08:34.279 me exactly what it was going to release
00:08:36.240 and then my body would just release it
00:08:37.760 wow um now that’s not what everyone’s
00:08:40.240 going to experience but it’s that’s
00:08:42.159 what’s happening whether you know it or
00:08:43.880 not your body is doing that could be
00:08:46.000 subtle could be some people don’t feel
00:08:48.080 anything at all in fact my practitioner
00:08:49.880 warned me she said you’re probably not
00:08:51.160 going to feel anything for three or four
00:08:52.560 months and I was just having these huge
00:08:55.760 experiences right away but the cool
00:08:57.920 thing about sematic work is that
00:08:59.480 actually doesn’t matter if you
00:09:01.720 understand what’s going on or if you
00:09:03.480 know your history or if you remember the
00:09:06.839 negative memories or if you have a
00:09:09.000 feeling at all about it while you’re on
00:09:10.360 the table because your body and your
00:09:12.240 nervous system is what’s holding that
00:09:13.800 pattern yeah and so I got really into
00:09:16.200 that deep diving into attachment um
00:09:18.680 obviously with my history pretty
00:09:20.560 important stuff right uh I think pretty
00:09:22.800 much in all of our histories there’s
00:09:24.320 some attachment stuff going on right I
00:09:26.920 would say yeah it’s pretty obvious yeah
00:09:29.120 yeah so that’s a real passion of mine
00:09:31.040 and we’ve created some programs with um
00:09:33.360 clinical psychologists and sematic
00:09:35.079 experiencing practitioners and other
00:09:36.760 doctors to bridge sort of the spiritual
00:09:40.079 conscious relationship work with the
00:09:42.120 sematic work um to help the body and the
00:09:45.680 mind get on board because it’s it’s one
00:09:47.640 thing to really know your patterns or
00:09:49.240 say like I understand these Concepts
00:09:51.720 yeah and I want to to change and it’s
00:09:54.440 another thing for your nervous system to
00:09:56.040 actually allow it yeah and so that is a
00:09:58.440 big that is a big jump from intellectual
00:10:02.440 understanding of oh I’m avoidant to
00:10:05.279 being in a a triggering experience with
00:10:07.839 your partner who wants your attention
00:10:10.240 and that moment where you’re like oh
00:10:12.320 this is what avoidance looks and feels
00:10:13.920 like in my body how do I work with it
00:10:17.959 and then how do I get into the wounds
00:10:20.079 that created it so that there can be
00:10:22.040 healing in space is is that is that kind
00:10:23.959 of how you see it playing out in your
00:10:26.320 people yeah I mean I I relate it a lot
00:10:28.839 to the element I love working with
00:10:30.519 nature for all that I do and so do um we
00:10:34.399 have you know fire just sort of that
00:10:36.639 disorganized anxious avoidant right
00:10:38.920 where this like Dynamic mix water for
00:10:42.160 this anxious attachment air for avoidant
00:10:44.720 and Earth for secure and I really like
00:10:47.800 to weave back in nature because so many
00:10:49.639 of us have these attachment wounds and
00:10:51.560 yet if we are able to reconnect with
00:10:53.560 where we come from and where we actually
00:10:55.600 belong then we have that Divine mother
00:10:58.360 that Divine father holding in the
00:11:01.120 elements and so we don’t have to put so
00:11:03.920 much pressure on our human kin who
00:11:05.639 perhaps can’t and never will hold us in
00:11:07.800 the way we need it right right I think
00:11:09.639 that’s a that’s a really crucial
00:11:11.440 understanding and it would seem like it
00:11:13.480 would seem and I I want to kind of take
00:11:15.120 a deep dive into the attachment wounds
00:11:17.079 and what are the different kinds and
00:11:18.480 where do they come from etc etc but I
00:11:20.760 think it’s really important for people
00:11:22.320 to know like that that these these
00:11:25.000 wounds are are not necessarily going to
00:11:27.720 go away completely they’re going to be
00:11:30.560 allies if you can make them allies just
00:11:32.920 like Shadows can be allies right and and
00:11:35.360 it’s in the awareness and then moving
00:11:37.360 them through our bodies or at least
00:11:39.120 feeling everything that needs to be felt
00:11:41.240 around them that there’s space and then
00:11:44.600 we can become more relational and and so
00:11:47.720 I see so many people my my journey was
00:11:50.000 kind of the opposite of yours where I
00:11:51.399 started in the tantric you know yogic
00:11:54.160 sexuality world and then in the last few
00:11:56.160 years I’ve just gotten more and more
00:11:57.639 convinced that my own nervous system
00:12:00.560 safety my own Triune brain my own lyic
00:12:03.360 system like needed healing in order to
00:12:06.240 fully be able to both hold myself and
00:12:09.760 then hold a partner yeah yeah I mean
00:12:12.240 that’s that’s actually really similar to
00:12:13.880 mine too CU I dove into these tantric
00:12:16.360 Shadow work containers and we’re doing
00:12:18.000 this like theatrical huge release you
00:12:21.240 know Shadow work up in front of rooms
00:12:22.959 you’re in a room with 30 people and
00:12:24.560 you’re just going so deep into your so
00:12:26.959 intense to do it’s but I actually found
00:12:29.320 that you know I was doing this for
00:12:30.440 almost 5 years yeah and I started to get
00:12:34.040 fried like my nervous system was fried
00:12:37.079 and it got to the point where I was
00:12:39.480 starting to get really sick and I
00:12:41.560 actually was really scared that I wasn’t
00:12:44.040 going to get better so I actually
00:12:45.680 stopped doing that and I went into
00:12:47.760 sematic experiencing with a therapist
00:12:50.560 and that’s when all of my symptoms went
00:12:53.199 away and all of these things started
00:12:55.399 shifting my health just completely
00:12:57.440 shifted and that’s when I really went
00:13:00.160 down the rabbit hole of studying all
00:13:02.720 sorts of things like Dynamic attachment
00:13:04.399 repatterning of course inherited family
00:13:06.519 trauma is one of those things as well
00:13:08.199 it’s not sematic based but it’s an
00:13:09.560 integral part um and just how the
00:13:11.639 nervous system holds and stores trauma
00:13:14.399 and yeah it’s interesting because I
00:13:16.880 think in our culture we love to talk
00:13:18.519 about attachment Styles like it’s very
00:13:20.199 trendy but then when I work with people
00:13:22.320 they’re like okay well how do I just not
00:13:24.199 date an avoidant
00:13:26.040 anymore it yeah yeah how do I how do I
00:13:29.120 avoid the avoidant or the anxious one
00:13:31.600 and if I’m and there a lot of the people
00:13:33.880 that I work with they come in they
00:13:35.560 identify as anxious but actually when we
00:13:37.320 drill down most are actually anxious
00:13:39.199 avoidant yeah right and so there’s sort
00:13:41.360 of this pretty sure that’s me too for
00:13:43.480 sure I mean I think it’s a lot of people
00:13:46.199 and there’s no shame in it and it’s
00:13:47.839 really just something that we’re working
00:13:49.440 with it’s a pattern that we’re working
00:13:51.000 with our soul chose to come here with
00:13:52.639 that love lesson and and we chose the
00:13:56.000 parents yes that gave us the imprint
00:13:58.279 right we chose and we didn’t choose you
00:14:00.079 know what I mean like our soul chose I I
00:14:01.800 agree with you there but but the human
00:14:03.920 in us we it’s not our fault right and I
00:14:06.279 think that there’s a to remove any
00:14:08.079 element of shame or judgment from from
00:14:11.800 understanding when we’re looking at our
00:14:13.000 own pathologies there’s there’s often
00:14:15.120 this sense of of I don’t want anybody to
00:14:18.240 see this or I don’t really want to
00:14:20.040 acknowledge this because a I’m going to
00:14:22.040 have to do the work and be I might lose
00:14:24.920 love right and and I think this starts
00:14:27.639 with a a true acceptance of what is um
00:14:31.959 in us and I I imagine that that people
00:14:34.959 who are you know I just actually took a
00:14:37.120 2hour test to you know dive into my
00:14:40.800 attachment style I’ll get that back I’m
00:14:42.759 my you know I’m a little anxious to see
00:14:45.839 what it is think I pretty know you a
00:14:47.600 fire being I think I think I think you
00:14:49.519 know whatever the most [ __ ] up is
00:14:51.639 that’s me that’s me um I’m very aware of
00:14:55.320 it and I don’t have any Kink around it
00:14:58.240 yeah you know what I mean like I know
00:14:59.519 what I I came through a very similar
00:15:01.160 situation to you without the foster
00:15:02.880 homes that’s norly but but alcoholic
00:15:06.519 chaotic home and lots of just neglect
00:15:10.000 and unpredictable
00:15:11.759 unpredictability oh yeah yeah God God
00:15:14.120 bless them all yeah and how old were you
00:15:16.240 when you went out on your own I uh 18
00:15:19.399 yeah my mom my story is is interesting
00:15:21.920 because my mom got her [ __ ] together
00:15:24.199 when I was seven okay she got off drugs
00:15:27.160 she became a Buddhist she like but she
00:15:29.519 went like all of the energy that went
00:15:31.720 into the chaos she focused into becoming
00:15:34.319 a Buddhist and so literally you know
00:15:37.279 jumped into the spiritual path very
00:15:40.000 deeply but it still and I see this now
00:15:43.759 it still didn’t
00:15:45.279 cure the childhood pain that she just
00:15:49.120 did not get access to yeah and and I
00:15:51.920 think that’s what I really want people
00:15:53.360 to get from you know again I’m talking
00:15:55.600 about this a lot in my work um I really
00:15:58.120 want people to get like you cannot it’s
00:15:59.839 two separate tracks it’s totally
00:16:01.959 separate two separate tracks you can be
00:16:03.639 the most spiritual person in the world
00:16:05.600 and have not done any of your
00:16:08.399 relationship work and I I do emphasize
00:16:10.839 that as well like you could be a tantric
00:16:13.480 Yogi and you could be a raiki master you
00:16:16.399 could be an astrologer you could be
00:16:18.399 whatever a kind of practitioner in the
00:16:20.279 spiritual be a sorceress or a shaman or
00:16:22.759 you know and yeah but that doesn’t mean
00:16:25.040 that you have explored your original
00:16:27.800 wound it doesn’t mean that you’ve worked
00:16:29.839 with that first family system it doesn’t
00:16:32.959 mean that you’ve worked on your
00:16:34.480 attachment mounding it’s actually
00:16:35.880 completely separate and like I said
00:16:38.440 that’s kind of how I started right I was
00:16:40.519 like oh you know spirituality you know I
00:16:42.560 loved studying heart math and crystals
00:16:44.519 and all those things and I’m glad that I
00:16:46.079 did but it didn’t help my relationships
00:16:48.639 like my relationships were a disaster
00:16:50.480 you know and that’s and that’s where the
00:16:51.920 rubber meets the road like you know what
00:16:53.120 I mean like a lot of us can find ways to
00:16:54.720 be happy by ourselves yeah it’s really a
00:16:57.519 lot easier and that’s what I tell people
00:16:59.199 it’s like okay well if you want to be a
00:17:02.199 monk and you want to meditate on top of
00:17:03.800 a
00:17:04.439 mountain then you go do that and that’s
00:17:07.319 going to be great as long as you plan to
00:17:09.079 stay that way yeah uh and that’s the
00:17:11.439 easy path to Enlightenment right but if
00:17:13.919 you’re going to be in relationship get
00:17:15.880 ready because it’s like this internal
00:17:18.039 war that you’re fighting with your own
00:17:20.640 attachment system with your own wounds
00:17:22.520 your own fears uh and you know I’m
00:17:25.079 almost I’m 9 years in in my relationship
00:17:27.880 and uh we’re we just go through Cycles
00:17:31.039 right it’s you go through really nice
00:17:32.960 seasons and then you go through winter
00:17:34.480 and you’re like holy crap we’re GNA die
00:17:38.080 um and I think it’s important to honor
00:17:39.480 those deaths too right within ourselves
00:17:41.760 but yeah all that to say healing is not
00:17:44.320 this like end all and use the word cure
00:17:46.840 and I love that because there is no cure
00:17:48.840 right like your soul came here with a
00:17:51.200 mission with something to learn and so
00:17:54.200 what I like to say is these patterns
00:17:56.159 that we come in with that we develop in
00:17:59.000 our early system of you know working
00:18:01.720 with the mom and the the dad archetype
00:18:04.440 um and whatever our environment is
00:18:06.559 that’s sort of locked in place and as we
00:18:09.280 do deeper work on our nervous systems
00:18:11.159 and our attachment as we start to be
00:18:12.960 more aware of what’s happening our
00:18:14.960 stories we can transform how the pattern
00:18:18.799 manifests in our lives so the pattern’s
00:18:20.960 still there but we’re transforming that
00:18:23.000 energy so we’re just working with it so
00:18:24.840 we’re not getting rid of it we’re not
00:18:26.640 breaking anything we’re transforming it
00:18:28.919 yeah so we’re of Dancing with the
00:18:30.640 pattern instead of fighting against it
00:18:32.559 and I’m sure that that is very similar
00:18:34.760 to the work that you do in your
00:18:36.159 containers yeah I mean the way that I
00:18:37.799 like to look at it is that all emotion
00:18:40.360 is energy in including our wounds it’s
00:18:42.600 just all energy and as we know in
00:18:44.440 physics the energy does not disappear it
00:18:46.520 just changes form exactly and so once we
00:18:49.039 can get conscious as to what to do with
00:18:51.760 the energy which can be is so intense
00:18:54.360 and so confronting and so painful um and
00:18:58.159 what to how to transform that or
00:19:00.360 transmute it is the word that I often
00:19:02.640 use transmute it into art yeah um you
00:19:05.559 know that is a that is a lifelong skill
00:19:08.159 and I think that people starting to I
00:19:12.280 think more and more people at least in
00:19:13.799 my worlds are starting to realize
00:19:16.039 because they see it in their
00:19:17.039 relationship like wow we could be
00:19:19.080 masterful practitioners of sexual
00:19:21.520 Artistry and yet we still don’t feel
00:19:24.120 totally safe around each other and yet
00:19:26.240 we still trigger the [ __ ] out of each
00:19:28.120 other and yet we still poke that wound
00:19:31.240 that is just so you know so painful and
00:19:34.520 so I I I think that um as we gain
00:19:37.640 awareness first which is why I want to
00:19:39.400 get into the attachment Styles and
00:19:41.039 really give people a nice you know uh
00:19:43.240 clear explanation of them as we as we
00:19:46.159 get awareness now we have agency right
00:19:49.720 now we get to now though it’s it’s such
00:19:51.760 an interesting thing because I think
00:19:52.799 there’s so many modalities including the
00:19:54.679 sematic experiencing you were talking
00:19:56.320 about to get out that energy and then
00:19:58.960 there is the sort of Artful whether it’s
00:20:01.400 archetypal work or working with the
00:20:03.080 elements or embodiment work that’s a way
00:20:05.080 to transmute that energy into art
00:20:07.919 there’s so many modalities that are
00:20:09.400 coming online but to assume that that
00:20:13.039 energy is just going to like go away or
00:20:15.960 hide in the
00:20:17.039 closet it’s just Folly I like to remind
00:20:20.880 people you don’t need to find somebody
00:20:24.000 who is secure necessarily and chances
00:20:27.000 are if you’re not securely attached you
00:20:30.720 won’t be attracted to somebody who is is
00:20:33.280 that is that so [ __ ] up right so what
00:20:35.640 are we looking for I know it’s like okay
00:20:37.720 so we came here to mate it’s like Prim
00:20:40.720 wired in our nervous systems and in our
00:20:43.200 biology to find a partner and yet then
00:20:45.880 we do and it’s like the most chaotic
00:20:48.039 annoying frustrating thing ever like who
00:20:49.960 made this up
00:20:51.919 why yeah it’s quite brilliant when you
00:20:54.120 think about it and and I think that I I
00:20:55.919 think it’s really important point to
00:20:57.159 make is that that I happen to believe
00:20:59.919 that we choose these people we magnetize
00:21:02.039 these people we attract these people so
00:21:04.320 that it’s sort of the universe giving us
00:21:06.400 a tap on the shoulder saying see here’s
00:21:08.280 the thing that your soul came here to
00:21:10.520 heal here’s the thing your soul came
00:21:12.279 here to make art with here’s the thing
00:21:14.720 that you crack in the cup where the
00:21:17.919 light comes through what was that great
00:21:19.400 roomie poem about you know the wounds or
00:21:21.600 where the light come sunlight can come
00:21:23.559 in and so it’s really quite brilliant as
00:21:26.799 a if you go meta I was the Transcendent
00:21:29.720 being designing this I would say yeah
00:21:31.919 let’s have them you know be attracted
00:21:34.600 the most attracted that like can’t take
00:21:37.840 their eyes off the person that is going
00:21:39.640 to trigger that wound the most so that
00:21:42.520 they will hopefully eventually after
00:21:44.360 multiple lifetimes or multiple
00:21:46.159 relationships take a look at that part
00:21:48.200 of themselves and get into the actual
00:21:50.200 healing of it exactly and that’s why
00:21:52.480 when you’re qualifying a partner and
00:21:55.039 yourself it’s more about readiness
00:21:57.919 willingness awareness right it’s are you
00:22:00.919 willing to do the work sure you might be
00:22:03.640 anxious avoidant sure you might be
00:22:05.200 avoidant sure you might be anxious
00:22:07.039 whatever the label
00:22:08.480 is are you willing to do the work yeah
00:22:11.960 you know do you want to and do you want
00:22:13.880 to with this specific person because I
00:22:15.760 will say it’s not right with every
00:22:17.520 person like there are some relationships
00:22:19.240 that are just way too chaotic and
00:22:20.840 there’s some element missing that’s
00:22:22.240 really important to you that the
00:22:24.320 motivation is just not there yeah right
00:22:26.400 and so if you’re not fully into it
00:22:29.039 you’re like oh I don’t really want to do
00:22:31.000 the work with this person in our you
00:22:33.279 know trendy spirituality world right now
00:22:35.440 it’s like oh well you just don’t want to
00:22:36.679 do the work like you just got to do the
00:22:38.000 work I want to do the work with you it’s
00:22:39.360 like that’s okay you actually don’t have
00:22:41.080 to do the work with this person you’re
00:22:43.000 still going to have to do it with
00:22:44.000 yourself anyways eventually and I think
00:22:46.200 it’s important to remember like some
00:22:47.799 relationships are not meant to go all
00:22:49.600 the way and we every person we encounter
00:22:52.240 is a partner in our healing they’re a
00:22:54.240 mirror back to us they’re showing us
00:22:56.240 something about ourselves ites
00:22:58.720 necessarily mean that we’re just like
00:23:00.279 them that’s not the mirror philosophy
00:23:02.559 it’s more that they are reflecting back
00:23:04.279 something about where our patterns are
00:23:06.840 and sometimes that’s a block around
00:23:08.880 staying too long when we really need to
00:23:10.640 leave and set boundaries and sometimes
00:23:12.919 it’s the inner Runner archetype um I
00:23:15.360 know that one really well and that one’s
00:23:17.240 still very much working its way out of
00:23:19.480 my system and hopefully on my
00:23:22.279 deathbed have figured that one out but
00:23:25.320 it is sort of this lifelong thing and
00:23:27.000 it’s important you just choose a partner
00:23:28.559 who you want to do the work with and
00:23:29.840 instead of thinking like okay well we’re
00:23:31.919 both we both need to be secure before we
00:23:34.480 get into relationship it’s like Good
00:23:35.880 Luck Good Luck yeah yeah cuz the real
00:23:37.919 work doesn’t happen until you’re Trigg
00:23:40.000 until those things are you know exed all
00:23:42.039 right so I’d love to get into the the
00:23:44.360 various types of attachment wounding for
00:23:46.360 people that don’t know I mean we often
00:23:47.840 hear Instagram is filled with accounts
00:23:49.799 that talk about anxious avoidant uh
00:23:52.679 dismissive avoidant fearful avoidant
00:23:55.440 anxious attached I mean there’s a lot
00:23:57.240 more there’s a whole organized category
00:23:59.760 for those of us who were really [ __ ]
00:24:01.320 up as kids but I’d love for you to just
00:24:03.840 lay out like each individual one what
00:24:05.919 are some of the traits of it what are
00:24:07.720 some of the where where does it come
00:24:09.240 from and I think it’ll probably make
00:24:11.520 sense for people and and how does it
00:24:13.240 manifest how do you how can you sort of
00:24:15.559 gauge like oh this thing that I’ve now
00:24:17.799 seen in 10 straight relationships in
00:24:19.840 some form or another that actually means
00:24:22.640 that I have an anxious attachment wound
00:24:25.399 that I need to tend to yeah I I like to
00:24:27.840 keep it really simple and like I said I
00:24:29.799 do draw on the elements a lot for this
00:24:31.559 because there’s also alter work and
00:24:33.480 personal nature work that we can do to
00:24:36.360 help work some of that stuff out yeah um
00:24:39.600 so the anxious attachment you know I
00:24:41.559 relate that to water and anxious
00:24:43.559 attachment is essentially formed when we
00:24:46.799 are in early childhood and there’s
00:24:48.720 inconsistent warmth right so the
00:24:50.919 caregiver is sometimes present sometimes
00:24:53.120 not hot and cold perhaps a bit
00:24:56.520 erratic um when we have the avoidant
00:24:59.760 that person learned that nobody’s ever
00:25:02.159 there and they’re just straight up
00:25:03.880 non-responsive caregivers non-responsive
00:25:06.360 so they really learned early on that
00:25:08.520 they were on their own and so it’s very
00:25:10.399 uncomfortable for the avoidant to be in
00:25:13.760 a partnership they’re more accustomed to
00:25:15.840 doing things on their own they just
00:25:17.840 expect to be alone in the world in a way
00:25:21.520 and so then when you ask them to like
00:25:23.159 consider another person or to lean in in
00:25:25.880 times of intense emotional experience
00:25:28.440 that’s just not something that their
00:25:30.440 nervous system understands whereas the
00:25:32.159 anxious person they’re driven to connect
00:25:34.559 because they’re sort of in this grasping
00:25:36.960 energy they’re still working that wound
00:25:38.679 out yeah yeah and so they are pursuing
00:25:43.039 and the avoidant is withdrawing yeah um
00:25:45.559 and that can be obviously really really
00:25:47.799 challenging for both people and the the
00:25:50.520 rhetoric usually is like oh avoidance
00:25:52.559 don’t care right and that that couldn’t
00:25:55.240 be further from the truth and if you
00:25:57.360 think about it this way let’s say
00:25:58.559 there’s a doorway so the anxious person
00:26:01.000 is in the doorway already they’re at
00:26:02.760 least aware of what’s happening in their
00:26:04.440 emotions they can see the room the
00:26:06.640 avoidant person is also anxious and
00:26:08.840 having an emotional experience but
00:26:10.559 they’re not even in the door yet they
00:26:12.520 can’t even see what’s in the room
00:26:13.960 they’re just far removed because they’re
00:26:16.000 so detached they don’t want to go into
00:26:19.600 that feeling because it’s terrifying for
00:26:21.320 them so they’re more likely to get
00:26:23.880 really tired when they’re in conflict or
00:26:26.559 to need to leave and go for a or go out
00:26:29.279 or go meditate or go whatever do
00:26:30.960 something on their own Comforts their
00:26:32.600 nervous system exactly because for them
00:26:34.799 safety is aloneness and that’s not
00:26:37.440 necessarily the normal human blueprint
00:26:39.679 but for them that’s what as infants they
00:26:41.559 learned yeah whereas that that anxious
00:26:44.159 person is like pursuing pursuing
00:26:45.919 pursuing uh safety is togetherness
00:26:48.399 safety is togetherness and there’s like
00:26:50.279 this preoccupation with resolving and
00:26:52.880 repairing uh yet the way that they go
00:26:55.559 about resolving and repairing is often
00:26:57.640 very critical very demanding I know this
00:27:00.000 one well and then it’s like okay you
00:27:03.520 think you’re expressing a feeling but
00:27:04.919 actually you’re being explosive and kind
00:27:06.520 of attacking and so that person’s not
00:27:08.480 hearing feelings um and so when I’m
00:27:10.840 working with people who are anxious a
00:27:12.520 lot of times they struggle to even get a
00:27:15.080 a positive view of their relationship or
00:27:17.640 their partner at all so if you were to
00:27:19.159 ask them about their relationship they
00:27:21.000 might be able to easily list all of the
00:27:23.320 negative things so as a practitioner you
00:27:25.840 might think oh wow that relationship’s
00:27:27.279 terrible your partner
00:27:29.039 but if you really drill down and you ask
00:27:30.679 the right questions you’ll find that
00:27:32.159 they actually have a really loving
00:27:33.559 partner sometimes and that their partner
00:27:35.039 is doing all of these incredible things
00:27:37.399 but as the anxious type they’re not
00:27:40.240 oriented to seeing that and so you
00:27:42.679 actually have to work to recognize good
00:27:45.720 in the world um and we’ll talk after
00:27:47.960 about some practices some different
00:27:49.880 sematic practices that I like to weave
00:27:52.320 in for that specifically seeing good in
00:27:54.720 the world then we have the secure person
00:27:58.240 where are they where are yeah yeah
00:27:59.519 exactly the 10 of them they they’re just
00:28:02.200 relaxing in their marriage somewhere
00:28:04.080 having an easy peaceful life or
00:28:06.000 something so the secure attachment you
00:28:08.559 know they’re just comfortable being in
00:28:10.799 relationship there’s not this like Push
00:28:12.760 Pull in the nervous system um to get
00:28:14.799 away or to pursue they’re comfortable
00:28:17.000 with healthy space they’re also
00:28:18.480 comfortable with togetherness they’re
00:28:19.880 more collaborative conflict doesn’t
00:28:22.159 freak them out as much they’re kind of
00:28:23.760 just like okay well like let’s work this
00:28:25.320 out of course there’s conflict it’s just
00:28:27.440 not that big of a deal right um it’s
00:28:30.799 kind of Mountain Energy Earth Energy you
00:28:33.080 know very rooted right and and then we
00:28:36.600 have the fire type the anxious avoidant
00:28:39.320 which is you know also kind of
00:28:40.600 disorganized is that also the same thing
00:28:42.279 as a fearful avoidant yeah I mean it’s
00:28:44.120 ESS you can have fearful or dismissive
00:28:46.720 and they’re sort of like subtypes but
00:28:48.279 it’s sort of you know it’s the same
00:28:49.799 energy this disorganized attachment
00:28:52.120 which is stemming from often very
00:28:54.720 chaotic environments right so there’s
00:28:56.960 not only inconsist y but there’s also
00:29:00.120 often abuse or some type of you know
00:29:03.640 physical or emotional verbal chaos um
00:29:07.240 there’s just a lot of
00:29:09.559 unsafe experiences that happen for the
00:29:12.600 person who’s exp they can be both
00:29:14.679 anxious at times and also avoidant at
00:29:17.120 times it’s usually it’s paired it’s sort
00:29:19.600 of like a combination at the same time
00:29:21.320 so if you’re experiencing anxious
00:29:23.440 avoidance it’s a it’s kind of like come
00:29:26.080 here but [ __ ] you get away from me at
00:29:27.679 the same time it’s like you know it’s
00:29:29.600 like prove to me that you love me by
00:29:32.399 breaking through this impenetrable wall
00:29:34.799 you know it’s like I want you to [ __ ]
00:29:36.279 fight for me like I see in the movies
00:29:38.360 and it’s like that’s actually toxic but
00:29:40.679 that’s you know that’s the energy that
00:29:43.039 we want when we’re in that anxious
00:29:45.080 avoidant energy because we’re like I’m
00:29:47.559 trapped inside of this experience and so
00:29:49.840 I need you to break me out of it so it’s
00:29:51.880 it’s also this level of um yeah it’s
00:29:54.519 it’s a feeling of being trapped
00:29:56.039 essentially because you want so deeply
00:29:57.600 to connect but when you get that
00:29:59.240 connection there’s a huge pull back
00:30:01.720 because it’s very scary to connect
00:30:04.159 because it’s so foreign and love was
00:30:07.080 often paired with really confusing mixed
00:30:09.039 signals where it wasn’t actually safe so
00:30:11.840 there’s this anticipation of pain
00:30:14.799 negativity or pain or betrayal or
00:30:17.039 something paired with the desire to
00:30:19.159 connect so there’s a lack of trust there
00:30:21.080 is paranoia there’s just this feeling of
00:30:23.840 I’m not safe in the world and you say
00:30:26.000 that you love me but I don’t really
00:30:27.240 believe you and there’s like this
00:30:28.679 constant
00:30:29.760 testing happening and you know that one
00:30:32.919 is the most challenging attachment style
00:30:35.440 not only to be in partnership with but
00:30:37.360 also to be in um because it is so
00:30:41.200 chaotic at times uh but at the same time
00:30:45.080 there is no attachment style that can’t
00:30:47.399 be worked with and nurtured and that’s
00:30:50.080 the beautiful thing is like whatever
00:30:51.600 we’re experiencing the nervous system
00:30:53.919 does know how to shift it just needs
00:30:55.600 that support and we need to have really
00:30:58.600 solid containers and and agreements in
00:31:01.120 place and we need to be with a partner
00:31:02.880 who has the capacity to hold it um and
00:31:06.679 so that’s sort of how I frame it I’m I’m
00:31:09.639 curious that you know you hear a lot
00:31:10.799 about dismissive avoidant versus fearful
00:31:12.799 avoidant are there distinctions there to
00:31:14.760 be made yeah so the dismissive is
00:31:17.039 obviously they’re dismissive so their
00:31:18.880 their instinct is to just dismiss and
00:31:22.080 invalidate at every turn to sort of push
00:31:25.080 away anything that could create a
00:31:27.159 Feeling yeah right or to like invalidate
00:31:30.159 your feelings is it is it a feeling or
00:31:32.480 is it the feelings that they experienced
00:31:34.240 when they were young that they just
00:31:36.039 don’t want to experience again is it’s
00:31:38.279 is that’s kind of how i’ had it
00:31:39.880 explained to me yeah yeah it’s whatever
00:31:42.279 is coming up in the relationship is if
00:31:44.080 it’s triggering you it’s usually
00:31:46.360 historical right so it’s of course it’s
00:31:48.639 in your container of relationship it’s
00:31:50.760 whatever is coming up it’s often
00:31:52.240 something that’s triggering us from the
00:31:53.519 past we tend to be able to go in and out
00:31:56.279 of different attachments so you can be
00:31:58.120 secure in some relationships and then be
00:32:00.880 really chaotic in others depending on
00:32:02.760 what that person represents for you so
00:32:05.320 you might be securely attached with men
00:32:08.480 but anxious avoidant with women based on
00:32:11.679 your own history and your own blueprint
00:32:14.080 right like if you had a stable
00:32:15.760 relationship with males and you weren’t
00:32:17.519 betrayed by them but then you had a
00:32:19.279 really unstable mother that could
00:32:21.600 perhaps show up um so of course we have
00:32:24.080 our like fixed Styles but there’s also
00:32:25.760 some fluidity there um so the missive
00:32:28.279 one is more of like oh whatever you say
00:32:31.159 I’m going to sort of like try to
00:32:32.399 minimize yeah whereas the fearful
00:32:34.840 avoidant is this deep shutdown there’s a
00:32:36.799 bit of Terror or anxiety around using
00:32:39.440 the voice around confrontation around
00:32:41.799 conflict freezing is that would that be
00:32:43.720 the going into a nervous system freeze
00:32:46.200 and withdrawal so you know even ghosting
00:32:48.519 so this can look like not caring but
00:32:51.399 deep down inside there’s actually a
00:32:53.159 terror going on yeah that makes a lot of
00:32:55.679 sense and then so once you you know once
00:32:58.039 you identify you know where you’re
00:33:01.000 trending and I imagine that like you
00:33:03.320 said depending on the partner you know
00:33:05.200 your partner might activate or evoke
00:33:08.159 certain aspects of your anxiousness or
00:33:10.240 your anxious avoidance right because
00:33:12.360 they are a certain way um but once you
00:33:14.919 identify these things what’s the proper
00:33:18.399 next steps for for dealing with them
00:33:20.559 other than just reading Instagram posts
00:33:22.600 yeah totally I mean it’s just so
00:33:24.600 oversimplified to you on social media
00:33:27.240 and um there’s some good you know God
00:33:28.679 bless him there’s a lot of good stuff
00:33:29.799 out there you know what can you say in a
00:33:31.519 90c real you know yeah so there’s
00:33:34.279 there’s so much Nuance to this and I
00:33:36.120 think it’s important when we’re talking
00:33:38.480 about attachment and we’re talking about
00:33:40.039 these Dynamics like some people are
00:33:41.880 going to be in an anxious avoidant
00:33:43.480 Dynamic where it’s just really unhealthy
00:33:47.159 for them in their stage of the journey
00:33:50.440 to continue because the partner is like
00:33:53.320 so avoidant and this person’s so anxious
00:33:55.919 that the capacity to work out it’s a
00:33:58.279 trauma Bond right and so and and I see
00:34:02.200 this a lot and because there’s this idea
00:34:04.440 that if you are in a spiritual
00:34:06.000 relationship the only spiritual response
00:34:08.159 is to stay there gets to be this
00:34:10.918 confusion and then we’re kind of
00:34:12.320 cementing ourselves in a pattern deeper
00:34:14.719 when actually the empowering thing to do
00:34:16.520 sometimes is to consciously uncouple
00:34:18.918 yeah now if we are in a dynamic where
00:34:22.480 we’re like okay this is a relationship I
00:34:24.239 want to invest in like I could see us
00:34:26.000 Going the Distance here right we both
00:34:28.119 have a lot that we’re bringing to the
00:34:29.520 table but we really want to do this then
00:34:32.520 there’s multiple things that we want to
00:34:33.879 do one is remember that each of you has
00:34:36.679 a role to play and that you’re designed
00:34:39.760 and this is in AO couples therapy with
00:34:42.239 haral Hendrick I trained in that as well
00:34:44.599 you’re designed to attract a partner who
00:34:46.520 is your opposite yeah I think let’s
00:34:48.359 let’s just double click that cuz I think
00:34:49.918 no matter how many times I say it people
00:34:52.280 think like oh I just need a new partner
00:34:54.960 I just need to attract somebody new and
00:34:56.480 I just need to the next one I I’ll
00:34:58.440 discern somebody better right and that
00:35:01.800 might happen you might get somebody who
00:35:03.760 has a little more capacity or but
00:35:07.200 inevitably we tend to evoke those the
00:35:10.000 things that we don’t want from even the
00:35:12.480 better version oh for sure so you’re
00:35:14.800 going to you’re going to attract
00:35:17.000 basically the same person in a different
00:35:18.920 body over and over and over again if you
00:35:22.320 really feel like you are stuck in a
00:35:24.480 pattern with a type of person that is
00:35:27.119 absolutely not healthy for you the
00:35:29.000 answer is actually to stop dating for a
00:35:30.960 while and to go all in on your nervous
00:35:33.079 system perhaps doing tantric work yeah
00:35:35.880 and then get out there you know take a
00:35:37.720 year take two years it’s really there’s
00:35:40.000 no rush especially when you’re if you
00:35:41.920 want to choose a life partner life is
00:35:43.400 long you know this is you might be think
00:35:45.599 this person’s wonderful now but like it
00:35:47.079 doesn’t matter how in love you are you
00:35:48.440 know 10 20 years from now like you see
00:35:50.760 it all not that fun all the time so if
00:35:54.560 you really want to shift something and
00:35:56.240 you’re like no I’m sick of this and this
00:35:58.240 isn’t going to work you can’t just go
00:36:00.280 back out there right away because you
00:36:01.720 will just find another person that’s
00:36:03.880 like that now after you do more healing
00:36:06.640 work on your nervous system maybe you
00:36:08.839 build more capacity what you are
00:36:11.400 attracted to actually will shift so we
00:36:14.440 have and who you magnetize also right I
00:36:16.800 mean it’s like if if you start to clean
00:36:18.640 up and heal the the original wounds the
00:36:22.319 all the pain that’s in there underneath
00:36:24.800 the you know attachment Styles so really
00:36:27.440 just strategies right underneath the
00:36:30.240 strategies that you actually will start
00:36:32.160 to magnetize a different type of person
00:36:34.760 as well right because imagine if you are
00:36:38.319 embodying this energy of helplessness
00:36:40.720 and grasping and low
00:36:44.040 self-esteem a person who you might think
00:36:47.079 you want to attract in their power in
00:36:50.640 their highest expression is not going to
00:36:52.760 be drawn to that because there would be
00:36:54.440 an imbalance like it would be like
00:36:55.880 teacher student energy yeah and this is
00:36:57.920 another one I’m sure you see a lot in
00:36:59.480 couples there’s often this wounded
00:37:02.280 student and then the teacher energy
00:37:03.839 who’s coming into like and that doesn’t
00:37:06.160 work I’ve been in that personally yeah
00:37:07.920 multiple times yeah yeah it’s hard to
00:37:09.839 avoid it in my world but it is also
00:37:12.359 important to you know I think that the I
00:37:14.640 think as I as I get older and I’ve had
00:37:17.000 more experience what I’m noticing is
00:37:19.200 that I want somebody who is willing to
00:37:21.880 go into the underworld with me right
00:37:24.960 like that there are there are there are
00:37:26.400 these ways that we can work with our
00:37:28.240 nervous systems and work with our bodies
00:37:30.960 and ceremonially and therapeutically and
00:37:34.079 shamanic and you know yogic Le we can do
00:37:36.800 all this and having somebody who’s
00:37:39.280 willing to like I think Jordan Peterson
00:37:41.160 calls it you know like just go into the
00:37:42.920 pits of hell with somebody there is a
00:37:45.280 certain truth to that right like there
00:37:47.160 is a certain truth that you know having
00:37:49.359 somebody to do that but easier said than
00:37:51.520 done for most of us yeah I mean
00:37:53.520 everything’s easier said than done for
00:37:55.280 real and and I mean it’s hard because
00:37:57.599 because you just you don’t know what you
00:38:00.000 don’t know while you’re in it and
00:38:01.800 sometimes it takes getting out of it to
00:38:03.480 take a step back and look so that’s why
00:38:05.480 when you’re when you are out of a
00:38:07.280 relationship it’s a really potent time
00:38:09.400 to take a a large view of what patterns
00:38:13.400 are you actually bringing in and what
00:38:15.560 are the partners mirroring to you like
00:38:17.720 what’s the core emotional theme that’s
00:38:20.760 following you through it’s not like oh
00:38:22.520 all of my partners are like tall dark
00:38:24.560 and handsome or like they’re all blonde
00:38:26.119 with blue eyes it’s like okay what about
00:38:29.160 the emotional theme that you bring right
00:38:31.680 what’s that core emotional theme that
00:38:33.760 you feel in every single relationship
00:38:35.640 that’s the I’m too much story it’s the
00:38:37.880 I’m not lovable story it’s the they’re
00:38:39.480 always going to leave me story and
00:38:41.480 that’s really what you’re working with
00:38:42.680 or there not enough of this story that’s
00:38:45.040 often something that I see a lot like I
00:38:46.760 just keep attracting some men that or
00:38:49.040 women that are just not it yeah right
00:38:52.319 and and and that’s also something to to
00:38:54.839 look at right well and when you ask
00:38:56.079 people what they want in a partner a lot
00:38:57.760 of times you have to kind of giggle with
00:38:59.880 them because you’re like oh that would
00:39:01.240 be amazing that person doesn’t exist in
00:39:03.160 the world right like we it just doesn’t
00:39:05.760 like there’s no perfect person uh nobody
00:39:08.480 is perfect none of us have it all
00:39:10.200 figured out and at the same time when we
00:39:13.640 get to a certain point in our Evolution
00:39:16.520 then we can attract a person who’s at
00:39:18.440 least willing to do those deep Dives
00:39:19.960 like you say go to the pits of Hell
00:39:21.440 together and hold it with love that’s
00:39:23.400 really quite I mean I’ve done that many
00:39:24.839 times in my relationships it’s really
00:39:26.520 it’s it’s one of the rewarding and
00:39:28.280 fulfilling things for me to be able to I
00:39:30.800 remember a couple times I went into
00:39:32.720 literally went guided with a therapist
00:39:35.040 into the pits of Hell of my childhood
00:39:37.599 and my partner was there watching me and
00:39:39.800 I was a an absolute slobbering snotty
00:39:43.920 mess um I can’t remember what I was
00:39:45.960 saying it’s not fair you know I just I
00:39:48.560 kept just kept saying it’s not fair it’s
00:39:49.800 not fair but it was it was so beautiful
00:39:52.760 and healing to be in that work together
00:39:56.599 yeah right and and and be in that work
00:39:58.720 together and to to so I’m I’m trying to
00:40:00.920 also paint a picture like this kind of
00:40:02.839 healing although it might sound daunting
00:40:05.079 can be so beautiful and so intimate you
00:40:08.200 know if guided properly and I think and
00:40:11.040 you can you know let me know what you
00:40:12.040 think about this but I think that the
00:40:13.240 the way to work with these wounds is so
00:40:15.520 holistic right we we talked about this a
00:40:17.640 little bit earlier like that you know
00:40:18.800 that there is a therapeutic piece of it
00:40:20.880 and there is a embodied piece of it and
00:40:22.760 there is a uh I’ll call it a shamanic
00:40:25.000 piece of it there is a karmic piece of
00:40:26.680 it there is a spiritual piece of it’s
00:40:28.079 like it’s like the whole all of it needs
00:40:30.319 to be um addressed in order to deal with
00:40:36.000 how deep these things are cuz you know
00:40:38.160 most of the time these are real deep
00:40:41.720 wounds that people you know I mean not
00:40:43.720 everybody grew up the way that we grew
00:40:45.200 up thank the Lord but but but a lot of
00:40:47.640 people are coming with you know some
00:40:49.359 very deep wounds and and we need a full
00:40:53.400 you know complement of tools and
00:40:55.440 modalities and so there’s no shame and
00:40:57.520 having to really you know load up on
00:41:01.079 this the various kinds of support I
00:41:03.119 agree and that’s where we can go wrong
00:41:05.319 too is just sort of uh isolating like oh
00:41:08.359 well this is the only way to heal yeah
00:41:10.319 I’m going to meditate my way through
00:41:11.520 this well yeah and that for a lot of
00:41:13.079 people it’s just dissociation right
00:41:15.640 which is why it’s so comfortable if
00:41:17.000 you’re really traumatized not that
00:41:18.800 meditating is bad but it can be not
00:41:21.640 ideal for certain nervous system types
00:41:24.280 um and so try to tell the Zen Buddhist
00:41:25.800 that they dissociate for two hours a day
00:41:28.880 you know anyway I get it yes but it is
00:41:32.040 you know resting as Consciousness as
00:41:34.359 beautiful as it is is sort of a form of
00:41:36.520 dissociation yeah and not that you
00:41:38.440 shouldn’t do it men I just I tell you to
00:41:40.520 do all the time not you shouldn’t do it
00:41:41.920 but you know come back into your body
00:41:43.359 and well exactly and so that I love that
00:41:45.960 you’re saying you know we need this
00:41:47.000 holistic because when I’m looking
00:41:48.920 at spiritual healing work or if I’m look
00:41:51.560 even just like mothering right this has
00:41:53.160 been a big one for me it’s like there’s
00:41:54.760 everything so I’m not just looking at
00:41:56.480 like what’s present now or like what is
00:41:58.000 this mirroring back to me about my
00:42:00.319 history or my own childhood but like
00:42:02.359 what is her past life information that’s
00:42:04.560 coming through and like what does her
00:42:06.359 soul need and there’s just so much there
00:42:09.400 and it’s not one or the other and like
00:42:11.880 you said it’s not always it’s it’s not
00:42:13.800 about blame or judgment it’s just it
00:42:15.520 just is and so here we are so can we
00:42:17.960 work with that and it is so beautiful to
00:42:20.240 allow ourselves to be seen and to see
00:42:22.640 our partner in those depths uh but it’s
00:42:25.040 terrifying and a lot of people are AR
00:42:27.359 willing to go there which is why we see
00:42:29.240 these cycling in and out of relationship
00:42:31.640 yeah I think that’s a really good point
00:42:33.880 like that and and that’s certainly what
00:42:35.319 I’ve experienced you know that I’ve had
00:42:36.839 partners that just I I’m ready to go
00:42:39.400 into the hell you know for myself and
00:42:42.079 with you but you know not everybody is
00:42:44.079 ready to do that and not everybody feels
00:42:46.400 ready to do that and they you know but
00:42:48.640 at the very least you know I I hope that
00:42:51.160 this episode will give them some plant
00:42:53.599 some seeds like oh here’s the pattern
00:42:55.880 that I need to watch out for in
00:42:57.880 relationships so that that’s that’s a
00:42:59.800 question I would bring to you like what
00:43:01.599 should people look for in their current
00:43:04.160 relationships that might you know just
00:43:06.359 sort of you know point at something that
00:43:09.400 they should an attachment wound that
00:43:10.920 they should look at here’s a really
00:43:12.240 simple practice when you get triggered
00:43:14.760 with your partner just take a moment of
00:43:17.040 pause in the nervous system we’re so
00:43:19.760 used to reacting right so what would it
00:43:21.960 be like in that moment to just take a
00:43:24.040 moment of pause that’s the first step to
00:43:27.319 learning how to regulate your nervous
00:43:29.079 system in that big First Step people but
00:43:32.400 like for example let’s say let’s say
00:43:34.280 you’re just dating yeah let’s say you’re
00:43:36.040 dating you’re dating an avoidant person
00:43:38.359 you are not super close with this person
00:43:40.079 yet and your inclination is to text text
00:43:42.359 text and try to check in and pursue now
00:43:45.839 a pause for you might look like pausing
00:43:48.880 and sitting with that sensation of
00:43:51.720 grasping for five minutes just the part
00:43:55.319 of you that wants to grasp and then
00:43:56.440 still doing it yeah yeah that could be
00:43:58.520 just the first step is I’m going to sit
00:44:00.280 with this energy I’m going to hold this
00:44:01.800 energy of desperation you know
00:44:04.160 helplessness grasping please love me
00:44:06.240 please approve of me and then you still
00:44:07.760 send the text yeah but you’re taking
00:44:09.960 that moment of pause oh let me add a
00:44:11.520 little because I this is kind of a fun
00:44:12.839 lab we’re in here I love that where you
00:44:15.000 just really go into feeling whatever’s
00:44:17.720 there under the trigger and the grasping
00:44:20.319 I always love like start to embody it
00:44:23.079 like give yourself a minute to just be
00:44:25.040 like theatrical just like text me text
00:44:28.319 me love me like like run the energy
00:44:31.280 through your body before you decide to
00:44:33.880 send the text I mean you know that that
00:44:36.920 is such a simple thing that you know can
00:44:39.160 change a lot of moments you know moments
00:44:41.720 that could go arai into what I would
00:44:44.440 consider art yeah you know yeah yeah
00:44:47.160 yeah I love that and I I want to loop
00:44:48.839 back to that thread after because I have
00:44:50.520 some thoughts about it and also some
00:44:52.000 questions for you about the that piece
00:44:54.200 yeah sure um but yeah so that’s the
00:44:56.040 first step we’re we’re cre creating a
00:44:57.440 pause and the pause is important because
00:44:59.800 that is teaching the nervous system that
00:45:01.640 we are not in fight or flight uh we
00:45:04.760 don’t need to freeze there’s no wild
00:45:06.839 animal in the closet we can actually
00:45:09.160 they aren’t really going to abuse me
00:45:10.880 physically or they’re not going to leave
00:45:12.440 me and even if they do I’m going to be
00:45:13.880 okay you know they are not my source of
00:45:16.200 safety and approval so once we start to
00:45:19.079 train that you know it might take a
00:45:21.440 while we might still do the behavior but
00:45:23.680 we learn to take the pause and that
00:45:25.400 pause slow slowly gets longer and longer
00:45:28.040 till we’ve widened our capacity to
00:45:29.520 actually hold our own feelings and our
00:45:31.520 energy because that’s really what we’re
00:45:34.319 working with is our inability to hold
00:45:37.480 right what’s happening inside so we want
00:45:39.040 to eject from our bodies or we want our
00:45:41.359 partner to fix it it’s like save me from
00:45:43.319 this feeling this is your fault like I
00:45:44.839 don’t want to feel this you take it and
00:45:46.200 I’m going to throw it at you right and
00:45:49.359 so in these moments what we’re really
00:45:51.760 learning how to do save me from this I
00:45:53.680 can’t tell you how many times I see that
00:45:56.000 right save me from this feeling and you
00:45:58.000 know it’s one of the core things that
00:45:59.680 comes up in most relationships that
00:46:01.520 causes a breakdown is this resentment
00:46:04.160 that this person is not showing up the
00:46:05.920 way you want them to show up and in
00:46:07.800 those moments you know my husband Ben
00:46:09.599 and I when we first started dating like
00:46:11.160 two years in maybe a year in actually we
00:46:14.280 moved in together seven months in it’s
00:46:16.119 really fast actually um but our
00:46:18.280 attachment stuff started coming up right
00:46:20.000 away I think that’s important for people
00:46:22.000 to get those first few months of dating
00:46:24.640 do not expect to do not expect to see
00:46:27.839 you will see after together for sure and
00:46:31.079 I I really warn people in my containers
00:46:32.839 I’m like listen all of those influencers
00:46:35.119 that you see online they’re beautifully
00:46:37.079 dressed and they’re draped in Priestess
00:46:39.160 Garb and their man is just so devoted
00:46:41.200 and they’re making out in a rivered and
00:46:44.040 it’s like we’re so in love and I’m like
00:46:46.160 I love that for you and like you just
00:46:48.079 started dating and you’re professing
00:46:49.960 like how conscious this love is but like
00:46:51.920 can you please come back to me in 5
00:46:53.359 years 10 years 15 years then let’s talk
00:46:57.359 right and so it’s like that’s not it
00:47:00.240 it’s just you’re just really in this
00:47:03.040 chemical soup at that point and it’s so
00:47:05.119 beautiful and fun to swim in but it’s
00:47:08.000 that’s not where you’re going to land
00:47:09.599 right there would be no population if
00:47:12.079 our hormones were not set up that way
00:47:15.160 yeah yeah so you know you get into this
00:47:18.040 place where everything is coming up and
00:47:20.520 uh for Ben and I it totally did and we
00:47:22.960 were in this place where I was really
00:47:25.640 pursuing him we were in these tantric
00:47:27.839 containers together right away two
00:47:29.359 months in I was like you want to join
00:47:31.000 this tantric group with me with this
00:47:32.720 like magician Shaman and he was like
00:47:35.200 well what if we’re not together still by
00:47:37.079 the time it ends it’s like a 3mon thing
00:47:39.160 and I was like we will be I don’t do
00:47:41.480 short relationships that was his pattern
00:47:43.680 I was like don’t worry like we’ll still
00:47:45.160 be together so anyways we go into this
00:47:48.000 thing and everything is blowing up in
00:47:50.440 our face and of course I’m the conscious
00:47:52.359 one because I want to do the work and I
00:47:54.319 want to repair in the moment and he
00:47:56.440 doesn’t
00:47:57.520 so that makes the problem so I had no
00:48:01.359 problem letting him know that he was the
00:48:03.079 problem and we get into these conflicts
00:48:05.200 and he would just fall asleep or he
00:48:06.720 would leave and he would just disappear
00:48:08.440 and I was like go
00:48:10.040 narcoleptic yeah a fight I love exactly
00:48:12.680 he just get so tired and he couldn’t
00:48:14.359 stay awake and so you know his nervous
00:48:16.400 system was doing we didn’t know this yet
00:48:18.160 yeah I was like what the hell like
00:48:20.839 you’re just falling asleep and so
00:48:23.280 anyways one day I always love to tell
00:48:25.240 this story because it’s actually quite
00:48:26.760 embarrassing but it’s important because
00:48:29.200 I decided that because I was the
00:48:30.640 conscious one and because I had it all
00:48:32.760 figured out the best move would be to
00:48:35.160 record our conflict
00:48:37.200 oh I’ve I’ve actually heard that
00:48:39.319 happening quite a bit it’s I just I
00:48:41.559 cringe but yes it I get the thinking I
00:48:44.359 mean so this was like I’ll play it back
00:48:45.800 to him and then he’ll see how
00:48:47.520 unreasonable he is yeah oh yeah yeah so
00:48:50.559 and you know I how old was I at this
00:48:52.319 point like I don’t know 28 or something
00:48:54.599 you know I was young and I think this is
00:48:56.319 such a good idea because he’s going to
00:48:57.920 hear like you know what a [ __ ] he
00:49:01.000 is so I do the next day he’s off
00:49:04.720 somewhere and I decide to play it back
00:49:07.319 and I listen to it and I’m horrified I’m
00:49:09.920 like oh my God first of all it just was
00:49:12.760 really in my face like I was just
00:49:14.920 totally leaning into this guy not giving
00:49:16.960 him any space to speak it was just so
00:49:20.319 critical and intense and like I was just
00:49:23.079 on him that I was like how could this
00:49:24.440 guy show up even if he wanted to right
00:49:26.559 and and I was also at my wits end with
00:49:28.359 this pattern now he still was like
00:49:30.280 totally blowing it in his Department he
00:49:32.280 was leaving and just turning off his
00:49:34.440 phone he wasn’t showing up either but I
00:49:37.040 knew that in order to shift the pattern
00:49:39.200 I had to go first because I was the one
00:49:42.079 in the most discomfort yeah the person
00:49:44.280 who’s in the most discomfort is going to
00:49:46.440 have to be the one to make the move
00:49:48.000 that’s that’s a really good rule yeah
00:49:50.079 that’s the rule and everyone who hears
00:49:51.880 that they’re like why do I have to go
00:49:53.200 first like well you could just skip it
00:49:55.400 but you’re not going to get out of this
00:49:56.760 it’s your only choice so just do it
00:49:59.359 right and I think it’s important in that
00:50:00.920 in your case and this is similar with me
00:50:03.040 right going first mean might mean giving
00:50:05.640 them space that’s 100% what it means
00:50:08.799 yeah yeah going first might mean like
00:50:10.720 giving them what their nervous system
00:50:12.359 needs to recalibrate for a moment right
00:50:15.440 the medicine is generosity in
00:50:17.040 relationship yeah across the board of
00:50:19.200 course it’s always generosity and
00:50:22.119 so in that moment I feel like okay wow
00:50:25.760 who am I for this person and I was like
00:50:28.000 oh I’m being his brother his overbearing
00:50:29.960 domineering brother that was his pattern
00:50:32.119 he won’t mind me sharing that cuz he he
00:50:33.920 tells that story um so I sat him down
00:50:36.880 one evening and I said hey I really want
00:50:38.319 to talk to you about this pattern that
00:50:39.559 we’re in and I said I see the ways that
00:50:43.440 I’ve been pursuing you and uh cornering
00:50:46.440 you and and causing you to go into
00:50:49.440 shutdown and I realize that I’m done
00:50:51.960 with this pattern and if it doesn’t
00:50:53.440 shift in the next year within a year I
00:50:56.160 don’t want to do do this anymore because
00:50:57.680 I don’t want to build a life and a
00:50:59.160 family in this but I want to give us a
00:51:01.640 year and you know I was in year a year
00:51:03.440 is a reasonable time when you’re talking
00:51:05.040 about deeply embedded family system
00:51:07.319 wounding you know for sure and it wasn’t
00:51:09.520 like oh we have to have this solved it
00:51:11.319 was that I need to see some change
00:51:13.720 definitely not solved it did not get
00:51:15.599 solved in a year uh but I said but I see
00:51:18.400 how I’m at play in this and I see my
00:51:21.000 role so next time if we’re in conflict
00:51:23.839 and you don’t feel that you can show up
00:51:25.200 for me I’m going to remove myself I’m
00:51:26.799 going to go into the other room and I’m
00:51:28.640 going to work with my inner child and
00:51:30.200 I’m going to do self- soothing practices
00:51:32.400 and I’m going to leave you to it and so
00:51:34.400 he he agreed and sure enough that’s
00:51:36.839 exactly what I did the first time we had
00:51:39.119 a conflict after that and I just closed
00:51:42.040 my eyes and I laid my hands on my body
00:51:44.400 and I went into this darkness and I went
00:51:47.079 into this like preverbal infancy where
00:51:49.720 everything was black I couldn’t see I
00:51:51.720 was terrified and I was so afraid and I
00:51:54.359 just went in and I just stayed with it
00:51:57.559 and then I I started to create this
00:51:59.200 meditation for myself and as I did that
00:52:02.880 more and more I widened my capacity to
00:52:06.160 hold myself where I didn’t need to eject
00:52:08.359 and I didn’t need him to save me anymore
00:52:10.680 so I like to remind people that even
00:52:12.720 when your partner is misbehaving or not
00:52:15.079 showing up the way you want them to
00:52:16.319 they’re giving you a gift to heal
00:52:18.599 they’re giving you a gift to reclaim
00:52:20.200 your power and that’s exactly what he
00:52:22.119 did for me if he had a showed up every
00:52:24.720 time I was in that spiral right then I
00:52:27.680 never took you exactly right then you
00:52:30.160 would not you would not grow but thank
00:52:32.000 God you attracted the man who wasn’t
00:52:34.040 going to show up and make you this is
00:52:36.839 like this is what it looks like like you
00:52:38.480 would not have grown into the teacher
00:52:40.440 into the woman into the mother that you
00:52:42.079 are yeah had he been this beautiful
00:52:44.720 healed conscious masculine being yeah
00:52:47.240 well and I he would have eventually we
00:52:49.319 would have eroded because again nobody
00:52:51.680 wants to be in that Dynamic where one
00:52:53.359 person is the caretaker and the other
00:52:54.880 person is the helpless victim you don’t
00:52:56.680 want to be in that it’s not sexy it’s
00:52:58.359 not it’s not powerful so he gifted me
00:53:01.559 that and as time went on as I started to
00:53:04.760 do that he was getting curious all of a
00:53:06.880 sudden he’s interested and so he starts
00:53:09.160 moving toward me and so he now he wants
00:53:11.440 to initiate a clearing and now we’re
00:53:13.280 sitting down and we’re we’re clearing
00:53:15.160 you know it used to be you didn’t ask
00:53:16.799 him for like hey when you’re ready 2
00:53:19.520 three days like just when like you just
00:53:21.400 let him off the Hook fully let him off
00:53:23.079 the hook this is my work he also knew
00:53:25.920 that I wasn’t going to put up with this
00:53:27.240 forever I was like I’m not doing this
00:53:28.839 forever and I’m going to take care of
00:53:31.079 myself here and then he started to
00:53:33.000 initiate and you know we actually one
00:53:35.760 time had a conflict in the beginning
00:53:37.079 where he didn’t call me for 3 days and I
00:53:39.920 didn’t call him either but then the
00:53:41.559 first time I did message him I said you
00:53:43.319 want to meet at my spiritual teacher’s
00:53:45.720 house and so our first conflict we were
00:53:48.680 in our my transpersonal therapist’s
00:53:50.799 house processing together um so that’s
00:53:53.680 kind of how we started and that’s like
00:53:55.960 where we decided to go but now you know
00:53:58.680 we still have conflict lots of it uh at
00:54:01.079 times now becoming new parents we didn’t
00:54:03.119 before but now we’re back child a child
00:54:05.559 has a lot to do with stirring the [ __ ]
00:54:08.680 yeah we had this idea like we were
00:54:10.079 actually kind of bored not with each
00:54:11.280 other but we were just like it’s so
00:54:13.040 quiet everything’s so harmonious we
00:54:14.599 don’t fight anymore like everything’s
00:54:16.200 easy we’re so ready right uh and now
00:54:19.400 we’re like deep in it again 9year
00:54:22.599 wintering so uh but you know our
00:54:25.280 conflicts don’t go like that anymore um
00:54:27.400 they’re quick they’re just we move on uh
00:54:31.079 but it took 3 to four years yeah I I I
00:54:33.920 really want to I really want to bracket
00:54:35.559 that like it it takes because people are
00:54:37.720 so impatient right they’re so impatient
00:54:40.280 and it took three to four years of
00:54:42.079 probably you doing some very deep inner
00:54:44.839 child work him doing some very learning
00:54:46.680 how to consciously communicate with each
00:54:48.720 other you know and I think it’s
00:54:50.400 important that people understand that if
00:54:51.839 you really are wanting to work through
00:54:53.880 these and transmute these things you
00:54:55.680 know patience is the key not just
00:54:57.720 looking for the next the greener grass
00:55:00.680 absolutely and the other piece of that
00:55:03.000 is still in addition to that like it
00:55:05.559 doesn’t have to be that hard for a
00:55:07.160 really long time but we do operate in
00:55:09.680 nine-year Cycles right and a lot of
00:55:12.400 couples I talked to you know I have a
00:55:13.920 dear friend uh who said you know as soon
00:55:16.359 as my wife and I hit the 10e mark
00:55:19.280 everything just got easier and these
00:55:21.520 these are a couple who they go into the
00:55:23.079 depths of Hell together you know like
00:55:24.559 they do my kind of people yeah and so I
00:55:28.160 think there’s something to that cuz you
00:55:29.160 know go through the nyear which is like
00:55:30.839 let’s complete everything let’s let that
00:55:32.720 death go and then let’s move into the to
00:55:34.760 the new cycle and so when you’re in a
00:55:37.960 season of death in your relationship you
00:55:40.520 can ask like does this relationship
00:55:42.520 really need to end or do elements of
00:55:44.160 this relationship need to die does this
00:55:46.280 relationship really need to be over or
00:55:47.920 do we need to put to bed some of these
00:55:49.680 ways of being like can we ceremoniously
00:55:52.039 let it go you know and I’ve invited been
00:55:54.400 like hey maybe we should have a fire and
00:55:55.920 like give some of this back and like
00:55:57.720 start to you know we’re in our nyear now
00:55:59.839 so I’m like we need to start doing some
00:56:01.920 ceremonies we’re in a death right and so
00:56:04.680 what are we letting go so that we can
00:56:06.960 then go through that rebirth and enter
00:56:09.119 into that spring season of fertility in
00:56:11.079 the relationship um so there is these es
00:56:13.960 and flows of Seasons too so it’s like
00:56:16.000 doesn’t matter how much you do you’re
00:56:18.200 going to go through Seasons but as you
00:56:20.359 build these tools together yeah and you
00:56:23.039 have these agreements and you have this
00:56:25.839 prop toward generosity in the
00:56:27.839 relationship ideally over time you just
00:56:30.599 get stronger and stronger and then the
00:56:33.680 pattern might still exist but it doesn’t
00:56:36.599 run your life it’s not in charge it’s
00:56:38.720 not in charge I’m not going to let I
00:56:40.319 heard somebody say don’t you’re not
00:56:41.880 going to win yes let’s not let the
00:56:43.599 pattern win don’t let the pattern win
00:56:46.119 yeah and just witness it and be with it
00:56:48.359 and um if you really want to go for it
00:56:50.839 you know you can go all the way
00:56:52.680 into the theater of it as well
00:56:56.400 that’s I I I love that so in the time we
00:56:58.920 have left I’d love to get into a couple
00:57:01.119 things um some practices to bridge right
00:57:04.559 because most people think that you know
00:57:06.240 once I found out I have an attachment
00:57:07.799 wound or I have a deep pathology that
00:57:09.960 I’m bringing from my childhood and I
00:57:12.200 just use regular therapy to deal with it
00:57:14.640 yeah I’ve seen that to be ineffective
00:57:17.720 and like we’ve been saying it’s like
00:57:18.960 there’s all these other modalities to
00:57:21.039 work with it right sematic healing
00:57:24.079 sematic experiencing t spirituality
00:57:27.160 embodiment I mean there’s so much sort
00:57:29.440 of to so such a holistic approach that
00:57:31.559 people can take to these things yeah but
00:57:33.480 I would love to hear just a couple
00:57:34.920 examples of the bridges that you see as
00:57:38.039 most effective yeah there’s so many and
00:57:41.200 I think starting with the really simple
00:57:42.799 stuff is great because that gives us the
00:57:45.520 capacity to just begin right away what I
00:57:47.720 love with about the sematic work is that
00:57:50.160 you’re just working with your body and
00:57:51.240 everybody has a body so we get to do
00:57:53.359 that and so a really simple practice
00:57:55.799 that I like to bring for anyone who’s
00:57:58.079 working with attachment stuff is the
00:58:00.280 kind eyes
00:58:01.559 exercise and so if we have some an
00:58:04.920 anxious attachment or anxious avoidant
00:58:06.680 attachment we might have the propensity
00:58:09.680 towards seeing judgment or negativity I
00:58:13.760 remember I used to when I used to walk
00:58:15.039 down the street when I was younger if
00:58:16.400 anyone looked at me I would have just
00:58:17.599 assumed that they were judging me they
00:58:19.359 were like oh well she’s short or like
00:58:21.440 she’s ugly you know I would never think
00:58:23.480 like that person’s looking at me because
00:58:24.960 they think I’m beautiful that just
00:58:26.680 wouldn’t have crossed my mind so there
00:58:28.599 is sort of this uh wiring that leads us
00:58:32.119 to see the negativity and not be able to
00:58:34.760 recognize the warmth because that’s not
00:58:37.079 what we were registering as infants or
00:58:39.200 as young people even in those teenage
00:58:41.200 years so walking in the world looking
00:58:45.599 for kind eyes is a really beautiful
00:58:48.200 practice you might notice a dog on the
00:58:51.240 street that has kind eyes you might
00:58:54.280 smile at a mother walking by with her
00:58:56.400 child or you might see somebody checking
00:58:58.200 you out at the grocery store and just
00:58:59.319 take a moment to really look at them
00:59:02.119 there’s also a practice recalling a
00:59:04.480 kindness that I could take you through
00:59:06.520 right now if you want to experience it
00:59:09.119 okay so if you feel comfortable you
00:59:10.680 could close your eyes or you can keep
00:59:11.920 your eyes open and for a moment you’re
00:59:15.119 just going to feel the sensation in your
00:59:17.520 body right as you are right now just
00:59:21.760 recognizing what’s present and I’m going
00:59:24.960 to invite you to recall a time when
00:59:28.200 somebody extended a kindness to
00:59:31.920 you and when they were extending that
00:59:34.559 kindness what were they saying what was
00:59:37.480 their tone of voice what were they
00:59:41.319 doing and what was the
00:59:44.559 feeling and as you recall that feeling
00:59:47.960 go right into it and see if you can feel
00:59:50.559 it as if it’s happening again now
00:59:56.319 and just hold that feeling of receiving
00:59:58.599 a kindness in your body and inviting you
01:00:02.400 to return to the present
01:00:04.319 moment and noticing what you’re feeling
01:00:07.000 now yeah just warmth in my chest yeah so
01:00:10.720 we’re just teaching our body oh this is
01:00:12.960 what kindness feels like this is what it
01:00:15.400 feels like to receive love really
01:00:17.760 starting to imprint that memory yeah the
01:00:20.440 other really simple one if you’re
01:00:21.720 feeling overwhelmed or you’re feeling
01:00:23.440 anxious and you can do this anywhere if
01:00:26.079 at a party or if you’re in your
01:00:27.559 relationship and you’re having a
01:00:28.720 conflict is you just take your right
01:00:30.240 hand and you tuck it under your armpit
01:00:32.240 and you put your other arm around and
01:00:33.559 you just give yourself a hug and you can
01:00:35.240 squeeze and this is actually helping to
01:00:38.599 shift your nervous system it also works
01:00:40.960 with the ribs which are really
01:00:43.400 important so these are you know a few I
01:00:46.160 have a zillion of these and you know
01:00:48.359 these are sematic experiencing practices
01:00:51.079 um and then the other piece too is
01:00:52.839 recognizing what age you are in each
01:00:55.240 moment because when you’re in conflict
01:00:58.000 in the moment of trigger you are not
01:01:00.400 47-year-old John you’re little
01:01:04.200 three-year-old Jane or six-year-old John
01:01:07.680 and so if you can ask your body okay
01:01:10.240 what age do I feel like right now then
01:01:13.200 you can start to recognize like this is
01:01:15.160 historical this is not about this
01:01:17.480 present moment and then begin to work
01:01:19.559 with that energy a little bit more
01:01:22.240 because you’re sort of separating it a
01:01:24.160 bit also helps your partner mhm right I
01:01:26.599 you say like o I feel my six-year-old
01:01:29.319 ready to throw a tantrum or run into the
01:01:31.640 other room and start crying yeah I’m
01:01:34.359 feeling really young I think everything
01:01:36.160 that we’re talking about here starts
01:01:37.599 with self-awareness you know being able
01:01:39.720 to slow things down enough so that
01:01:41.799 you’re aware of where your nervous
01:01:43.359 system is lit up or you’re aware of the
01:01:46.160 thoughts you’re having or the
01:01:47.319 projections you’re having or you know
01:01:49.680 the desire to run which is you know the
01:01:51.400 great dismissive avoidant avoidant thing
01:01:53.839 is like get me the [ __ ] out of here yeah
01:01:56.319 what what do you have for that for the
01:01:58.240 get me out of here moment yeah well all
01:02:01.760 of the above that one is that one is
01:02:04.039 mine like I’m I’m such a runner because
01:02:05.839 you know I I was I had a police officer
01:02:08.480 assigned to me when I was 12 years old
01:02:10.039 that knew me by name that sent me
01:02:11.319 birthday cards because I was always
01:02:13.279 awall cuz when you’re word of the
01:02:15.039 government um it’s very important that
01:02:17.000 they know where you are and they never
01:02:18.640 did so um I know running very very well
01:02:22.599 I would walk 3 hours with all my
01:02:24.240 belongings on my back in the middle of
01:02:25.960 the night and that’s still very alive in
01:02:28.039 my system sometimes I’m like oh I just
01:02:29.559 want to run away from this the woods oh
01:02:32.839 yeah like my fantasy before having a
01:02:34.559 child it’s I will say it’s shifted now
01:02:36.279 that I’m a mother because I’m like I
01:02:37.640 can’t imagine leaving her but before
01:02:40.119 that it was like my fantasy was I’m just
01:02:42.039 going to go and live alone deep in the
01:02:43.559 forest like deep much deeper than the
01:02:46.119 forest I live in now completely alone
01:02:48.559 and just be alone and so one of the
01:02:52.039 things that I do is I future Pace that
01:02:54.599 like I actually go all the away with
01:02:56.319 that fantasy and then I imagine what it
01:02:58.359 would actually be like and I imagine
01:03:01.119 like not having all of the connection
01:03:03.039 and the friends and the love and all of
01:03:05.559 that and then I realized like oh that
01:03:07.680 wouldn’t actually be for my highest good
01:03:10.400 then the other piece too in that is I
01:03:13.799 acknowledge it you know like if my
01:03:15.640 husband and I are having a clearing I
01:03:17.319 can say everything in me wants to run
01:03:19.880 right now I want to leave but I’m going
01:03:21.599 to stay and I’ve said that’s such a
01:03:23.599 crucial skill to be able to just narrate
01:03:27.319 what’s happening in You Without Blame
01:03:29.799 yeah and just so it’s very intimate
01:03:32.279 right you’re basically saying like I
01:03:33.839 want you to know me and and my you know
01:03:37.039 hot the hot mess state I’m in right now
01:03:39.000 I want you to know me and and that that
01:03:41.039 helps I think to create the connections
01:03:43.599 yeah it does and it’s a it’s a learning
01:03:46.359 in progress too like I’ll say like since
01:03:49.079 having a baby it there feels like this
01:03:51.480 whole new work to do it brings up so
01:03:54.920 much that
01:03:56.680 I don’t think you can ever imagine or
01:03:58.200 prepare for it’s sort of like when you
01:03:59.520 tell people like when you’re single you
01:04:01.760 know the work doesn’t really start until
01:04:04.039 you enter into that karmic relationship
01:04:07.119 because then you’re taking on their soul
01:04:08.559 work too well the same is true for
01:04:10.799 Parenthood and so so much has come up
01:04:13.079 and so I actually feel like unpracticed
01:04:15.559 because we don’t even have much time
01:04:17.480 together anymore so we’re sort of in
01:04:18.760 this rebuilding phase relearning phase
01:04:21.240 and that Runner has been really strong
01:04:23.160 yeah um and it’s like you’re more glued
01:04:25.760 than ever uh so just to giving yourself
01:04:29.039 Grace and knowing like this is a
01:04:30.799 lifelong practice and if you have a
01:04:32.799 devotional partner who really wants to
01:04:36.240 go the distance with you who’s willing
01:04:38.279 to hold this with you then it can be a
01:04:41.200 really beautiful way to dance in and out
01:04:43.640 of the shadows and it’s you’re never
01:04:46.839 perfect you’re never perfect no and it’s
01:04:48.880 it’s so it’s so intimate I think the
01:04:50.520 thing is if you take the work on to
01:04:53.160 understand these things that we’re
01:04:54.279 talking about here yeah and can identify
01:04:56.520 your partner and also the wounds that
01:04:58.839 created you know the the experiences
01:05:00.599 that created the wounds that they’re
01:05:01.799 carrying there’s just more room for
01:05:04.039 compassion of course he doesn’t want to
01:05:06.240 work through conflict because he was
01:05:08.520 abused with conflict when he was young
01:05:10.359 or he was overwhelmed by it and you know
01:05:13.039 of course having big feelings is really
01:05:15.839 difficult because her parents blamed her
01:05:18.119 for their big feelings you know and you
01:05:19.720 can really start to start to create some
01:05:22.119 more compassion generosity and so I I I
01:05:26.520 love that as a a way for us to end it’s
01:05:28.680 just to really emphasize that this is
01:05:31.799 part of you know I like to frame all of
01:05:33.920 this work as Devotion to love because
01:05:37.200 really our capacity to be devotional in
01:05:40.200 love is commensurate to how well we work
01:05:43.760 these wounds exactly and how we kind of
01:05:47.359 create space and light in ourselves so I
01:05:49.799 really really appreciate you bringing
01:05:51.480 your wisdom and your experience it’s so
01:05:53.640 good to hear I love seeing couples that
01:05:55.440 like
01:05:56.440 are legitimately [ __ ] up you know they
01:06:00.079 have like legitimate stories of drama
01:06:02.359 and [ __ ] going down but then they find
01:06:04.720 ways to work through it it’s so
01:06:06.720 inspiring so good to to have you here
01:06:08.960 and then we’re just going to I’m going
01:06:10.200 to see this I’m going to make you come
01:06:11.640 back when you come back in March and
01:06:13.039 we’re going to do an episode on
01:06:14.520 parenting I would love that I I think
01:06:16.319 that would be so helpful people are
01:06:18.000 always asking me how do you work with
01:06:20.279 you know practice and as a parent and I
01:06:22.760 think it would be really beautiful to
01:06:24.160 also hear how do you create a healthy
01:06:26.359 attachment in your child like let’s
01:06:29.559 let’s dive into that how do you create
01:06:31.359 healthy attachment absolutely because
01:06:33.240 it’s like how do you create healthy
01:06:34.359 attachment in your child while also
01:06:36.640 keeping the attachment in your
01:06:37.960 relationship exactly exactly there’s the
01:06:40.640 trick there’s the trick I’d love to come
01:06:42.160 back and chat with you about us has been
01:06:43.720 wonderful thank you sh yeah great to
01:06:45.520 have you yeah okay everybody that’s a
01:06:47.680 wrap and we’ll see you next time on the
01:06:49.640 embodied relationship experience